March 26, 2014 at 1:38 pm #3511
Hi folks. This is my first post here so if this has been covered, please forgive me.
We live in a small town in southern USA. We have our preparations in place and have seriously considered our neighbors. One is a fireman, the other is a sheriff’s deputy. Both families have what I would value as desirable skill sets in a collapse situation. We have spoken with them both but not to a huge amount of detail. They instantly knew where we were going with the conversation. The fireman says he would just lay down and die in a situation. The sheriff’s deputy seems to want to take part in a group, but is only hording ammo. No food or water, etc. I’m not sure how serious he is.
So my first question is what do you suggest we do from here as far as the neighbors are concerned. Do we keep trying to get them involved or just leave them alone?
It doesn’t help that a family member built a fuel storage bunker on our property that really gives away our opsec. I have spoken to many people who ask what the structure is. We try to convince them that it’s a storm shelter. Thus far, everyone’s response is, “Yea, sure it is.” Then they wink and laugh.
So my second question is…now that I’m relatively positive that our opsec has been severely compromised, what do you suggest we do? I am the family member that has been tasked with security since I come from a prison security background with militia training to boot. Now I’m at a severe loss as to how to proceed. I know everyone who drives by our place knows that we are preppers due to a family member’s insistence on building that darned bunker while I was gone for a few months. It sticks out like a sore thumb in our neighborhood and it’s really well built and cost thousands of dollars. But one look at it and you instantly know what it is.
My first inclination is to sell the whole place and move so we can start over, but that’s just not feasible at this point. I have also considered purchasing property in the country as a fall back location, but cannot afford it. HELP!!March 26, 2014 at 2:06 pm #3518
Gypsy Wanderer HuskySurvivalist
Is there any way to cover it up? Such as build a shed shell around it? Something like that may help.
Prepare for the unknown by studying how others in the past have coped with the unforeseeable and the unpredictable.
George S. PattonMarch 26, 2014 at 2:58 pm #3551
Came here for that, Gypsy beat me to it.
Obviously there’s nothing you can do about the neighbors knowing, but if you could construct a false front (back, and sides, too) to make it look like maybe a guest house or something to casual passers-by, at least that would cut some of the security risk.March 26, 2014 at 3:46 pm #3571
Yea Carpedebass, definitely you need to do something with that fuel storage, “mask” it with something or similar. Husky gave good idea about that.
Point is that when SHTF lot of people simply will remember that fuel storage, and think about what else interesting you have, so minimize further damage and do something about it.
About fireman and deputy, it is important how detailed you talk with them about it, I mean things to consider are:
1. Fireman- trust me, very rarely people just lay down and die, he (most probably) will want to live and survive when SHTF, so I think he will come to look for you, to join you when SHTF. It is up to you what you gonna do then.
Fireman have lot of great skills for sure.
2. Sherrif s deputy- “he is just hoarding ammo”, maybe he will try to get everything else when SHTF with that bunch of ammo, if you understand me. He also have skills for that.
Remove (or cover, or mask) that fuel storage
Be prepared to accept or not accept fireman when SHTF
March 28, 2014 at 3:23 pm #4333
Be ready to “outgun” deputy when SHTF (if he choose to get your stuff)
1 – I think your fireman neighbor is being very honest. Treat him as such (maybe thiking meat on the hoof if your mind wanders in that direction).
2 – Your deputy neighbor is stuck thinking in terms of what is, not what probably will be. But he probably can be talked to. Cultivate him.
3 – By fuel storage bunker do you mean one of those big-azz LNG/propane/oil tanks? My advice is not to do anything to/with/about it except plan a) how to drain it into a more secure tank; and b) how to booby-trap it. In the mean time, start planning on how to replace it with one built underground
4 – as for “opsec” – first, stop using that term. Second – stop bworrying about who locally knows you have fuel stored and start thinking about which of them might be likely to try and come take it away from you. I’ll bet not many will want to risk anything and that will just be a pest and beg for some.
5 – If you do not like “everybody” being able to see what you have as they drive by, mask it. One of the cheapest/easiest/fastest things you could do is build a pole barn around it.March 30, 2014 at 6:18 pm #5497
Your deputy neighbor’s plan is simple: kill you (family, etcetera) and take whatever you’ve stockpiled. Well, maybe not you, but someone who has whatever they need.
I hate to put it that way, but think about it. Someone’s stockpiling ammo, because they know ammunition will get them whatever else they might need. Need water? Shoot the person who has water. Repeat as needed.
They might not be calculating the minutia of their actions that they’ll undertake once things go bad, but once they DO figure out that no one’s ready to take their order at the McDonald’s drive-thru, they’re going to do some very simple math: “Well, I have all this ammo and I sure am thirsty…”
Or, you know, whatever it might be: cheeseburgers, shoes, etcetera.
“You know how the first generation are warriors, and then the second generation become farmers, and then the third generation become inventors and creators, and then by the fifth generation they’rMarch 30, 2014 at 6:46 pm #5502
THis is where I may be of some help about the bunker , I spent 25 years in an industry , whos job it is to either hide things in plain sight or to make a fantasy world in a said space . I would turn that entire bunker area into a rock formation , do a good professional job , sense people have already seen it , I would tell them that you are just getting started , and that is just a maintenance room for the plumbing and electrical , as well as storage for chemicals , etc. Design the rock work to have a resurculating pump ( they are actually quite small , but most people dont know that ) and build a waterfall element with small pond at the bottom built into the rock ……this is a very common landscape element that people have seen a great deal ……it will also up the property value . You will need steel ( # 3or 4 bar ) , drill directly into the top and sides of the bunker , bend the shape , and make a cage grid , 1 foot squares approx . , Then steel lath to hold the cement to the structure ( lath UNDER the cage , not on top of the cage ) then cover with cement for a structure coat covering all the rebar , dont forget to rake or score the surface , this makes it easier for the finish coat to stick , you want it 2 inches thick min . so tie your lath accordingly . Then the fun part , the finish coat , cover in again , not all at once , and hand carve your rock to the desired look , when its all done paint it . You have now done several things at once , you have upped your property value with an attractive rock and water element , reinforced the bunker , and made the bunker go away in plain sight . I would also do a few planter pockets into the rock , and plant around it and add some dead fall trunks for more of an illusion . Many many other things I could tell you but it would be a book , I can and have made things so real , that you wouldnt know it was fake if you were standing on it .April 2, 2014 at 1:03 pm #6284
Great advice folks. Thanks for the tips and for reinforcing what I kind of already knew.April 2, 2014 at 9:25 pm #6427
First, the Deputy.
He may be in the beginning stages of prepping.
The normal beginning for “gun-types” is ammo and gun collection first and foremost.
It normally just means, he hasn’t thought beyond his nose.
“Work’ will provide for him, not raiding, so he doesn’t think beyond that.
Likely he’s a young guy, hasn’t woken up to the reality yet.
Go slow, he will probably come around with some gentle work, it just takes time for LE to trust those who
ain’t carrying a badge. .
He may also be sounding you out, not wanting to give up too much information
and have you and yours show up on his doorstep, either begging or marauding.
Too much knowledge about LEO’s.
The Fireman, the scary part, he may be correct.
Seen some as brave as can be, running into fires, accidents, risking life and limb but can’t come to terms with
a power outage. He’ll probably be at your door in one form or another, begging or offering help.
Hiding the fuel bunker?
Hay bales to make a 360 degree shelter?
Quick and dirty.April 2, 2014 at 11:38 pm #6445
Been my experience dont trust any LEO………….The only one’s you can trust are the ones that have gotten out of it , I have a good friend that after his military service , was a deputy marshal , then a prison guard ……he didnt like what eith was making him become …so he quit , now he’s an AC repairman with no worries .just sayinApril 3, 2014 at 12:22 am #6457
ICE BREAKER ..i hosted a BBQ last year, a sort of drop in and greet. neutral theme and family orientated. we had road hockey, hikes, fishing, games, pellet gun targets, and dogs playing together…. as would sometimes happen the men often end up talking over the fire and thats when i bring up community. a co sponsored safe area family could go if need be.i dont go further than that unless theres possative input. say if a guy wants to try some gold panning ill take him out and on that day one to one ill chat lightly about other things. when i get a good feel i say it straight. four years ago i wouldnt do that, but i see that a community networked together is stronger by far.
Prepare, Preserve, Protect...April 3, 2014 at 2:38 am #6475
if you don’t feel good about them, that should tell you something, I would limit my discussions with them. Be cordial. The fireman maybe a good guy, BUT he isn’t prepared, nuff said and when time hits, maybe he will see the light before, anyone’s guess, you are not a charity. The LEO is going to be different. He will have to obey his master that feeds him or he will be out of that realm. Theoretically good for him, bad for others. If he crosses over from their side his intel will only be so good for so long. That said, I do not trust them, they earned this. He can and will use anything against you because he can and he will to save him or his family, you loose. The DHS may turn on them too, but there are more of us than them, so if they want to start Civil War II, it will be different. I hope they remember that or their ranks will diminish sorta quickly. I live in the South, born and raised, LEOs are not what they used to be be very cautious.April 3, 2014 at 2:40 am #6476
vettom , AMEN to that !
Deo Vindis !!!!April 3, 2014 at 2:44 pm #6568
We’re in the process of masking the fuel storage bunker. I was also approached by the deputy yesterday. He was interested in showing off his ammo hoard. I wasn’t impressed. Let’s just say, there’s not much to it.
Someone said earlier that they don’t trust law enforcement types. I understand that very well. I spent several years in correctional security dealing with the worst people society has to offer. It changed me in ways that I don’t like, so I got out of it. I’ve seen life taken and have had to take life. The consequences of that cannot be understood until it sits upon you.
Thanks again to everyone for your insight. Selco, thanks especially for providing this valuable tool and for your words.April 3, 2014 at 3:05 pm #6570
Your LEO could prove useful for Intel especially if you are “managing the Intel asset” from your perspective. Glad you are hiding in plain sight. That is something I would suspect from your note you can manage. Just be careful when handling snakes FWIW.
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