August 17, 2014 at 4:10 am #22258
Here is a great article on the store owners arming them self’s to stop the criminals. They needed to have done this from day one.August 17, 2014 at 2:32 pm #22260
Good for them.They should do this on the border too.August 17, 2014 at 3:37 pm #22268
Owning 2 retail stores I can say, for myself, I would NOT be down there in the midst of it all trying to defend it against these hoodlums and many self-imported thugs. That’s why I have insurance. My life is worth more to me than getting in the middle of all of that.August 17, 2014 at 4:39 pm #22271
I understand your point and agree to an extent but you are still paying for the damage in your premiums. They know this as well and they know they are going to get free stuff someone else will pay for indirectly. By making your presence known you accomplish 2 things. 1 you make it clear their behavior is not acceptable and there is a price for their actions.
2 It further modivates law enforcement to handle the situation. You are saying handle this or I will.
that’s just my 2 cents.August 17, 2014 at 5:41 pm #22272
Hi Matt – (I’m nursing a twisted ankle today, slowly trying to do a bit at a time). Well, there is a big part of me that would want to be there I admit and defend what is mine. But I am not a large person, and standing down there with my guns? Nope. A bunch of those yahoos had guns of their own and greater numbers. What do I do if I have to go to the bathroom? Start to get sleepy? How do I keep clear-headed enough to know when it is ‘legally’ ok to shoot them and not end up in a pile of legal crap? If they are unarmed and I shoot them as they are breaking in and I am alone – is that ‘legal’? Now, if a bunch of my friends much bigger than I wanted to go down and take a stand I’d say go for it. But, for me? I’ve been a victim of some crimes and really must admit I wouldn’t care to risk experiencing another version first hand.
I do understand what you are saying! I’m just not that tough I guess.August 17, 2014 at 5:44 pm #22273
I think that what will happen is many if not all store owners will close down and never reopen/relocate there business. I saw this happen when in the 70’s it happened in Miami, almost all businesses relocated and the jobs in the area were zero.
Businesses collect the insurance and leave the area.
tweva knows this since she lived in Florida.August 17, 2014 at 6:49 pm #22275
Tweva I think you are tough as nails but you also have a clear head and are thinking right. In a SHTF end of times you will do just fine.August 17, 2014 at 10:38 pm #22326
What are the police going to do?
First, you risk more dead unarmed people. They already tried a show of force, that failed. You have to step it up a level or two to get compliance. Sticks and bottles are lethal weapons, especially when you’re outnumbered 50:1.
Secondly, you risk officers lives when the odds are that disproportionate. Sorry but your tv store isn’t worth one life, file the claim.
Everyone complains about facial recognition software until something like this happens. Wouldn’t it be nice to know exactly who broke into the kwickie mart from the video?
Many years ago, a few experts concluded that some of the best riot control involved a couple of sniper teams with suppressed .22s. The riot leaders, the ones egging the crowds on could suddenly have a punctured lung preventing them from continuing and positively identifying them for later prosecution. Even then hardly a life threatening wound, today completely survivable.
The crowd there already hates the police, bringing more badges there would only fan the flames.
The businesses relocate and the locals suffer, they’ll have to deal with their and others actions. They could have stopped this, they still can. But sadly it appears that everyone is more interested in a new flat screen and bling than building their community up.August 17, 2014 at 11:12 pm #22336
Whirlibird, You are right about how much can be done. What will happen is the insurance pays and the businesses will close down and never come back. I saw this in Miami in the 70’s.August 18, 2014 at 3:54 am #22411
Tweva lol I didn’t mean go down there by yourself. If you notice the pic in the article there are several guys standing there. No one could do that by themselves.
Whirli I understand your sentiment about their life is not worth yours. Let me ask you a question. This is not a slant or intended to ruffle feathers. For years now the the moment a cop shoots a black person all hell brakes loose. You know the reasons why. Is it possible that the police and society have been conditioned not to resist black people? You mentioned responsibility. They have a right to PEACEFUL protest. When you start stealing and destroying other people’s property you have broken the law. If you put yourself in the position to be shot and don’t obey the law you run a good chance of being shot. Everyone has cowed down to being called a racist and will not stand up for their own rights. That’s why the protesters act the way they do. None or very few have ever been shot for disobeying the law. It’s just like a child. If you don’t discipline them you get a brat . Because we have not held them responsible for their actions they think acting like this is okay.August 18, 2014 at 4:51 am #22422
Actually it wasn’t that their life wasn’t worth mine or yours.
More than once I risked my life for another.
It is property that isn’t worth the life of an innocent.
But that racist tag has become the new ‘communist’, which no one wants to be labeled with, accurate or not.
The media picks up on it, rams it down everyone’s throat, making it impossible for anyone to live once the tag is in place. The problem is exacerbated by the belief that many have that black/pink/orange people can’t be racist because they’re “X”.
Suddenly we have Sharpton and Jackson walking the streets, blaming anyone who doesn’t look, think and live like them. Regardless of the situation that caused the death. Little scumbag gets plugged while committing a crime, it’s the fault of the homeowner/storekeeper/victim because the skel had a poor upbringing, his mommy and daddy weren’t married or ever together and mommy couldn’t make ends meet while on welfare and getting tattoos, hair extensions and 6″ fingernails because they weren’t given enough for doing nothing.
They don’t care unless they can blame someone else. Look at Chicago, DC or pretty much every other inner city area. You have black on black (hispanic on hispanic, etc) crime, it goes unreported or unchecked by these same “leaders” because it doesn’t further their cause, doesn’t put money in their pockets, doesn’t get them the same soundbites on the news. If they suddenly had to take responsibility for their actions, for their people, for the crimes, what would happen? Nothing but their disappearance from the airwaves.
Look at what happened to Zimmerman. Railroaded by the media, the so called civic leaders, put on trial by a special prosecutor because the reality of the situation was not what the public wanted to hear or see. The Police Chief was fired/relieved because he refused to charge Zimmerman and said he had done nothing wrong. He was later reinstated because he was right.
Personally, I’d rather the shopkeepers plug as many as they can.
Regardless of color, thieves are thieves.
Years ago, they hung horse thieves. Why? Because stealing a mans horse was almost the same as killing the man.
He was left with no means of transport, no means of making a living, no means of survival in many cases.
It isn’t quite the same today, but the bad guys need to learn that being a bad guy is hazardous to their health.
They start ending up dead for their crimes, how many are going to decide that working at McD’s is a better career choice?
And the flip side, how many can live with killing that criminal?
Especially knowing the excrement storm that’s coming.
Justified or not, your life will change at least until society does.
As an aside, I recently watched a video from South Africa back in 92’ish. A cop (black) plugged a crook (black) outside his home. The crooks family was threatening the cop right there while the medics were working on the crook. The concept of retribution regardless of the circumstance is very alive in certain societal circles.
Meanwhile back in Texas, a Deputy (white) shoots a career criminal (also white) and unlike the above, the family comes and apologizes to the Deputy for the crooks putting his life at risk and for his actions.
I agree with the constitutional right of peaceful assembly, of peaceful protest and will continue to support the same.
But criminal action, the question becomes how far are going to go to prevent and stop the same.
What limits are we putting on those hired to protect us from harm? And why, because it makes us feel good or because it is the right thing to do?August 18, 2014 at 11:36 am #22438
Nicely said Whirlibird.
What we can all do is make a point of always standing up for what is ‘right’. Right does make might. Maybe I’m naive, but I do think, if people were honest with themselves, we do know what is right and what is wrong. It’s not always easy or convenient to do.
In 26 years in retail (at one time 5 stores and 10,000sqft warehouse) I have seen the depth and breadth of humanity. It is not always pretty, …but endlessly amazing. Throughout it all we have always tried to do what is ‘right’. We’ve had many ‘brush-ups’ odious behavior and flat out crime. In our stores, needless to say, the ‘customer’ is NOT always ‘right’. ‘Customers’ will lie, cheat, steal, blame anyone and their mother’s brother rather than accept responsibility for the results of their own actions.
You steal from us – we will prosecute you…..(even if that means endlessly waiting to be called in court, taking time away from making a living, only to be sent home and told to come back the case had been rescheduled – numerous times)
We suspect you of stealing from us or you can not control your behavior or otherwise choose to engage in nasty or disruptive behavior – we will ban you from crossing our doorstep again – and if you think we will forget and you try a few weeks later – never fear we WILL remember you and we WILL call the police and have you escorted out. We won’t forget.
We witness your child or children running through the store, under the clothing racks, running into elderly people without thought for their behavior; ripping open packaging, leaving toys and merchandise all over the floor for unsuspecting others to trip over; they are yelling, screaming, whining and you the parent are no where to be found? We WILL take your child or children in hand and reprimand them. Get in my face all you want once you DO notice (because you won’t admit you abrogated your responsibility as a parent, are angry at yourself or whatever)…keep it up and I’ll slap you with a ‘no trespassing’, never see your face or your children’s again – happily.
You work for me and expect to be paid for your efforts? You’ve read the employee manual, signed a statement you have read it, had each and every rule of conduct and policy verbally reiterated to you? Well, then don’t be surprised if I fire you in this ‘at-will’ state, on the spot if:
-you don’t call or show up for work for 3 days and stroll in on the 4th with some unbelievable tale of woe
-you show up in short shorts and a crop top wearing fuzzy bunny slippers and haven’t taken the time to brush your hair
-you wear a wig to an interview because you don’t think you would get hired if we knew you had neon green hair and a swastika tatooed on the back of your shaved neck…and once you have the job – leave the wig at home on your first day of work and saunter in proudly sporting your in-style ‘do’ and tatoo
– you slip and fall, break your arm in your home driveway and have the nerve to ask me for the name of my insurance company…because everyone knows insurance companies can afford it and…we won’t mind if she says it happened in our store parking lot and she sues us right?
– you decide you don’t want to work anymore that day because you are having problems at home…so you send the other employees home…and fax the stores end of day report….at 1:30 in the afternoon….thinking I would never notice this?
– you choose to steal from me – thinking your zeal and insistence in being in love with taking trash to the dumpsters will be taken by stupid me as the sign of a most excellent employee – and think squirreling merchandise away in the ‘trash’ and hiding it for later pickup in or around the dumpster is a ‘new’ way to get what you want….silly you! And, silly parents! Thinking I will not prosecute your child just because it is ‘their first job and they didn’t know better.’
And…to the perverts who come in thinking to get their jolly’s by walking around exposing themselves? You think we women will be too ‘embarrassed’ to confront you and tell you to put your little ‘man’ back in your pants as we call the police? Think again.
To the deluded that think they can hide in our stores at the end of the day, wait until we leave, to rob the place? You think we haven’t thought of that, check over, under and around before we lock the doors. You think we won’t notice your big fat feet with red tennis shoes dangling down from the hole where the ceiling tile is askew? Customers don’t look up, but we know that, and we do. Really, why are you surprised you were arrested?
And the yuppy looking couples that decide the expensive planters with flowers and shrubs outside our doors are so lovely they can’t live without them? Why are you surprised when the police don’t believe you when you try to tell them that ‘you thought they were just trash – we had put them outside because we didn’t want them anymore’ – – – when they stop you because you have your tailgate down with the planters in the back of your pickup that have written on them, by cynical me, ‘STOLEN FROM xxxxxx’ in big, fat-ass letters (despite how having to do it warred with my refined sense of aesthetics!)
And….I could go on for hours. I try to do my part to do what is right and set some sort of example although I am not perfect by any means…..but I won’t risk my life for the store if it becomes, unfortunately, surrounded by a situation such as is going on in MO.
Sorry, morning rant. Carry on…nothing to see here! And folks wonder why I would rather just be outside out here in the country.August 18, 2014 at 12:33 pm #22441
Sorry. I’m on the side of the armed store owners.
Won’t defend your livelihood? Won’t defend your dignity? It’s your RIGHT to do so.
If someone won’t defend their dignity, then it can hardly be said to exist.
The cops, as agents of the state, derive their power from the consent of the governed. That means the cops have no power that the citizenry does not possess – that they are simply acting in the stead of the citizenry. That the citizenry delegated this power to the cops does not negate the citizens power. It simply means the cops are acting with the PERMISSION of the citizenry. That’s how the system is designed.
Which means that if the cops bravely abandon you to the wolves, you are well within your rights to protect what’s yours. The Framers harped on Life, Liberty and PROPERTY.
This “it’s just stuff” attitude is what has created a generation of people who won’t stand up for themselves and think the cops can be called – like ordering a pizza – whenever trouble happens…
If I owned a business – and was down at my business and a bunch of rioting thugs decided to kick their way into my business – the fact that they are “unarmed” in the strictest sense of the word – no firearm – is unimportant. A mob can kill you just as dead as a firearm can. Ask Reginald Denny about that…
I fully support the citizenry doing what they have to do to defend themselves, their lives and their property…
The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1August 18, 2014 at 1:04 pm #22442
The most important lesson to be learned from Ferguson is that this is everywhere USA. Every city with a section populated by “low income families” could start rioting any night. It’s just shows how close we are to shtf.
The cops will not protect your property against “protesters” involved in “peaceful protest” while they burn your house or loot. It could be your residence leaving you no place to go.August 18, 2014 at 1:13 pm #22443
“The cops, as agents of the state, derive their power from the consent of the governed. That means the cops have no power that the citizenry does not possess – that they are simply acting in the stead of the citizenry. That the citizenry delegated this power to the cops does not negate the citizens power. It simply means the cops are acting with the PERMISSION of the citizenry. That’s how the system is designed.” Malgus
In a pure sense you’re correct, of course you recognize how corrupted the ideals of the system have become. It will probably put many citizens living in states without “Castle Laws” in jeopardy of jail time.
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