June 29, 2014 at 2:52 am #17417
Should we find ourselves in a large scale SHTF event in which there will be no help coming for some time, we all know that there is a good chance that we may have to engage in armed combat against bandits, mutant zombie bikers, foreign military forces, drug cartels, or a harmful government force.
My idea of an extended combat bag is a bag that holds extra gear/supplies that you and your little scouting/patrolling team can use should you face enemy contact and you can’t break from it. Depending on how you set up yours, a decent sized bag with the right stuff should be able to support 4-5 people with extra ammo, water, medical, etc.
A few of my thoughts on this are that something of this nature would be best used if you have some sort of vehicle (carrying your own gear already, plus an extra bag would suck, but it’s do-able). Also, this would be a bag that carries just the bare essentials to help you stay in the fight, nothing like an extra sleeping bag or something like that.
So, lets talk about contents. Ammo is a big one, of course. If everyone in your recon team doesn’t have the same type of firearm, then either make sure you do, or if that isn’t possible, make sure to carry ammo for all platforms. If we’re talking a group of 5 all rocking AR15 rifles, then I’d say have an extra 5 loaded mags per person (that’s just me and my ideas on it). Have extra medical gear, stuff to stop or slow bleeding, plug the holes, basic stuff right. Maybe 2-3 canteens of water, and some basic foods that are high in calories and light weight. Some other stuff like extra batteries for lights or optics, extra nav gear, paracord and duct tape, extra flashlight, small fire kit, and a tomahawk.
Just a few of my thoughts on it. Those of you with a military background, what are your thoughts/ideas on the subject? What stuff would everyone have in an extended combat bag?
Canadian Patriot. Becoming self-sufficient.June 29, 2014 at 3:47 am #17423
The concept of “Going Rhodesian”, grabbing batteries, ammo and water and heading back into the fray comes to mind.
The term is popular with the long range patrol types.June 29, 2014 at 3:20 pm #17436
Well, there’s the approach load and the fighting load…
The approach load is all the stuff you need for day to day survival, and all that that means. The fighting load is what’s left after you dump what you don’t need. If you’ve got a vehicle, you’ve got a bigger pile of support stuff – but there’s drawbacks as well.
Ounces equals pounds. As a lightfighter, I would dump anything that wasn’t absolutely necessary. I wouldn’t mind carrying a couple extra mags, but extra ammo? I cannot remember anyone, including me, ever having the time to reload a magazine when in a scrape. Having an IFAK (Individual First Aid Kit) would be okay, but also having a team member be your dedicated medic would be better. “Extra” would be the responsibility of the medic.
If we were going to be operating in a certain area for the forseeable future, I would cache stuff instead of humping it around. I always hated getting extra junk hung on me because I was a big guy. “You’re strong. What are you complaining about? You too puny to handle this bit of extra stuff?” Yeah, and that extra crap (strong + being the FNG = you get to be the assistant gunner. That means a boatload of extra stuff to hump around) slowed me down and took its toll.. instead of moving fast, you end up lumbering around with everyone else’s ****… and no matter how strack you are, that weight will wear you down.
One thing you might want to consider is calories. Someone humping extra crap, like an A-gunner, burns in excess of 4,000 calories a day depending on terrain, mission, etc. In a SHTF episode, will we have access to the resources necessary to keep the operational tempo going at 100%? Meaning: will we have the eats to keep everyone going at maximum effort? I think not. Granola bars and iron rations won’t cut it. In a SHTF scenario, your caloric intake will be considerably less. And in the scenario you described, chances are whatever Little Band of Paratroopers you happen to put together will be living off of whatever they can scrounge, assets put aside earlier and cached, or support from sympathetic locals… you won’t have regular logistical support being helicoptered in. And if the locals are hurting, then that means you will be too… there’s what you can take off of your opponents, but that’s not a guarantee.. they might be eating worse than you.
There’s a lot to consider… go light and fast and you might get caught without something. Go heavy and slow and you end up sucking hind tit…
The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1June 30, 2014 at 1:51 am #17466
Malgus, My Navy friend has always told me to carry only what you need and to take off everything else from your opponents(food, guns, ammo). So go lighter.June 30, 2014 at 2:34 am #17469
Those are excellent points to consider. My BOB ( if I even did bug out, only in extreme circumstances ) is set up to go light and subsist off the land. I have 30 years of hunting/ fishing/ etc experince to draw on so I am fairly confident I could provide for myself. However 4-5 others would be difficult as you noted without logistical support. I think a lot of people have some optimistic conceptions of a post SHTF world. There are different degrees of course of the level of collapse. that would really influence how your BOB or combat load out bag would be configured, vehicular or carried on your person.
StingJune 30, 2014 at 6:15 am #17470
Sun tzu every captured enemy provision is worth 10 of yours, Unfortunately in SHFT you will be the one with stuff rest will be without, unless you are engaging certain types of opponents.June 30, 2014 at 7:03 pm #17486
There’s a story and hand drawn pictures on another forum. (http://www.newrhodesian.ca/)
The story is of a firefight, where the author/artist went through 5 (6?) 20 round magazines and the fight was still on.
He tells of reloading while trying to keep his head down and not get shot by communist terrorists.
Of how fumble fingered he suddenly was, loose rounds, how long it took to load one mag.
Planning on taking gear/food/ammo/other supplies off the enemy is planning for failure.
They may have had the same thought, and have nothing.
They may have used all their stuff.
They may be near home and brought nothing along, expecting to eat at home/camp that evening.
Talk about a rude awakening, ammo expended, lives risked and lost, and nothing gained.
Augmenting your supplies, adding to them, that’s one thing, but planning to gather what you need? Bad idea.
Here’s another viewpoint, what you may ‘get’ may be damaged, junk and covered with who knows what.
A few years ago, a two hour gunfight occurred in Nuevo Laredo just across the US/Mexico border.
Have a look at the gear that the cartels brought to the fight (ambush), what someone may be able to salvage, and the damage done both upon persons and materiel.
Note also, at least one person was trying to reload single rounds into magazines either because of running empty, damaged magazines or such. Note also the damaged (shot) magazines that were either in the ‘plate carriers’ or in weapons when damaged.
WARNING!! There is blood, gore and very explicit/graphic crime scene photos involved, if you do not want to see dead bodies, blood and such, please don’t open. And don’t say you weren’t warned.June 30, 2014 at 7:42 pm #17487
“Augmenting your supplies, adding to them, that’s one thing, but planning to gather what you need? Bad idea.” – Whirl
Every insurgency/guerrilla war that has been fought has “taxed” the locals to support their efforts. Whether the supplies were willingly given or extorted is not important – what is important, is that the lightfighters got what they needed from the locals. Granted, it might not have been much, but it was more than what they had before.
And correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the Vietnamese use our own weapons, etc, against us during Nam? Same with the Afghans. Word is, they got Stingers now. And US helicopters, tanks, HUMMVs… Now, where do you think they got them? Fact is, the Afghans took Soviet weapons from dead Soviets, reverse engineered them and made more… then took those cave-made AK clones and smacked the **** out of the Soviets with them…
There’s always something to be gained by stripping your opponent… food, clothing, cartridges, medical supplies, even a lowly canteen of water or a pair of toenail clippers… I’m not going to count on such things, but I know it will happen. And then I will capitalize on it.
Edit: The IED’s that so damaged us, they were made from recycled artillery shells. Artillery shells left over from the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan and also from the Iraq/Iran war… scoop out the semtex or RDX and cobble together something nasty… a 105 round will reduce a house to individual house atoms… combine 10 or so together? ohhhhhh… nasty…
The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1June 30, 2014 at 8:08 pm #17489
We gave them the Stingers back when they were fighting the Russians.
RobinJune 30, 2014 at 8:31 pm #17491
We gave everyone new stingers in the last few years.June 30, 2014 at 8:33 pm #17492
I have talked about the border and cartels in other threads but this is the first time I have seen an actual LE report from an incident. Might be because I have never really looked for one. At any rate this report makes it easy to see why cartels are so feared. The hardware these guys have access to is impressive. I mean what the heck were they firing that blew volleyball sized holes in the maroon SUV on the last page of the report? It did not appear to be an explosive since the vehicle wasn’t charred. I live about 7 hours from the boarder and I don’t see them as an immediate threat but during a major SHTF scenario it would not suprise me to eventually see them this far North.
We law abiding citizens do not posses the types of munitions they do because well we are law abiding citizens. I believe you would be hard pressed to find enough well armed Joe citizens in a small community willing to stand and fight whilst seeing that kind of carnage being dealt to their friends. That takes training and experience. Not to mention a considerably larger group than the force they are fighting.June 30, 2014 at 8:34 pm #17493
I am aware we gave them Stingers back when the Soviets were occupying Afghanistan.
1. It was a test. The Stinger was new tech back then, and since we really weren’t fighting a war anywhere, thanks to Congressman whats-his-face, we gave a boatload of Stingers to the Afghans. Who promptly whupped the **** out of the Soviets with them. Yay for the Military/Industrial Complex. [/sarc]
2. We used the Afghans to fight the Soviets via proxy. We knew it. The Soviets knew it. SSDD.
That said, there is no proof that the Stingers the Afghans currently have are those same Stingers we gave them back in the 80’s. The Army probably brought some with them when they invaded a couple years back. We were leaving all that other crap there, so what’s a few hundred more Stingers? (or however many they got)…
One thing I am currently concerned about is the fact that they actually got them. Meaning, sooner or later, one or more of them will find their way back here to the US, and some damn fool of a towelhead will skrag an airliner with it… ( some say Flight 800 was skragged by one of them… multiple witnesses testifying that they saw a missile that day… and the “Official” word is that the Flux Capacitor had a dark matter energy surge which locked the Knooter Valve, which resulted in a reverse-polarity feedback loop in the anti-proton shunt valve which…. yeah, ain’t nobody believing that bullshit… )
Easy enough to do. Pay those idiots in the Caribbean or Mexico to look the other way while your boat slides through, or stamp your paperwork without inspection… easy enough. When Juan is only making a few bucks a month down in a Narco-State, a suitcase full of Ben Franklins looks pretty damn good… and all he has to do is just wave you through…
Of course, I’m sure there are those in power who are counting on such a thing to happen… just so they can use it as an excuse to complete the circle…
The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1June 30, 2014 at 8:40 pm #17494
Not arguing the past use of captured items.
Heck, we even supplied the French with the FP-45 “Liberator” so they could go out and gain better guns and gear.
But to make gathering food/ammo/etc an integral part of the supply plan? I’m not going to count on the supplies my opponents bring for my meal at the end of a fight/battle/march.
You have to start somewhere.
A kitchen knife can get you a pistol.
A pistol can get you a rifle, some ammo and maybe some grenades.
A rifle can get you……….
The skies the limit in some respects.
Look at what the Bielski’s accomplished in WWII Belarus.
Starting with essentially nothing, they became a resistance threat to the Germans.
Over a thousand people survived thanks to their ‘work’.
They had to scrounge, steal, make and buy everything, and they came close to starving many times.
Despite the Germans, as well as locals supplying them, willingly or unwillingly.
There is no guarantee of supplies, except those which you put back yourself.
Changing it around a bit, the “Doomsday Prepper” who went to jail recently.
He advertized that he and his group only stocked 6 months of food and were going to become Marauders post-SHTF to gather and gain more food/gear. He was planning to rob, steal and kill his neighbors, and said so on national TV.
The fact that he was a felon and was in possession of firearms, and again on national TV, got him thrown back in jail. But his plan was to steal food instead of storing it.
Again, I have no problem with scrounging food/gear/ammo to augment ones supplies.
But to make that an integral part of the plans, making your survival dependent on it, not a good idea.
Especially in times of “plenty” as it were.
Right now we can go down to the grocery store and get food, enough food to last a long time.
And tomorrow the prices may rise, but you will still be able to get more to add to the stockpile.
The day after that? Anybody’s guess.
But I can only count on what I put back, what I have on hand, not what I might scrounge.June 30, 2014 at 8:59 pm #17497
One picture has a 40mm HE grenade, launcher not recovered. Looks like they went in sideways except for one hole near the rear wheel. That hole looks like a 2″ hole saw made it.June 30, 2014 at 9:00 pm #17498
I read the report, looking for your maroon SUV.
Modern SUV’s are not bullet resistant. In fact, the steel is pretty danged thin. They’re pretty bullet transparent. That said, a shotgun running buckshot at close range will make oblong, raggedy holes like that. There’s 4 of them in a line – someone – a Bad Guy? – walking rounds down the side of the vehicle to nail the guy ducking beneath the window… Those are “innies” – made by something outside heading inside. The hole in the door is an “outie” – something heading the other way. See how the steel is peeled back like flower petals? Biggest thing I saw in that report was a 40mm grenade launcher – not the actual launcher, but one of the rounds. So, they either had a 203 or an M79, but neither was recovered. An 40mm HE round hitting a sheet steel car door makes a gawdawful mess – it would have just blew the **** out of the vehicle, blew the windows out, pushed part of the roof up, etc… way worse than what made them 4 oblong holes under the window on the maroon SUV.
I shall try to assuage your worry with a short, but very true, story…
Back in WWI, we sent over a million guys to fight in Europe. Those were the days when anyone could pick up a battlefield trophy and send it home. Hundreds of thousands of guys sent back fully automatic weapons, complete with transit chests, M-TOE, tools… and they were put up in attics and basements…
When the Feds came along with their shitty little “tax” in 1934, exactly ONE fully automatic weapon was registered that year. By the 1960’s/70’s, the entire database of Class 3 owners could be held comfortably on one Rolodex. Even though the Feds have had a couple ‘amnesties’ since then, nobody has really gone out of their way to dig out those old war-horses.
Which means that across the country, there are hundreds of thousands of tripod mounted, belt fed, water cooled HMG’s of various make squirreled away in attics and basements… little talked about family secrets, thanks to Great Uncle Joe or Great Grandpa… the Feds know they’re out there… somewhere – they’re stupid, but not that stupid..
So there’s hope. Things go shitty, I think we’re gonna see a lot of hardware that hasn’t seen the light of day in a hundred years… just because it’s old don’t mean it’s useless.
The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1
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