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  • #46394
    Profile photo of Roadracer
    Roadracer
    Survivalist
    member7

    I was away from light pollution last night and marveled at the stars I could see. It got me thinking if an EMP attack occurred at that moment. (Don’t ask how my mind works.) If someone were to launch an EMP attack at night, would the detonation be seen or heard? Or would everything just go dark?

    #46395
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    I will admit that question never occurred to me, and I don’t know the answer.

    I am increasingly of the opinion that it is more likely that the grid would be taken down via a cyberattack and/or physical attack than it is for there to be an EMP.

    #46397
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Roadracer
    I can only speculate that any nuke in the line of sight that goes off, will be visible no matter how far away it is. My question is, will it blind everyone facing it?

    #46398

    Good question. The answer will depend on where you are at the time. Are you in the middle of Wyoming, LA, Middle East dessert, etc… If you are driving then you will not see or hear anything, but your vehicle will shut off and roll to a stop. You would check your cell phone after trying to unsuccessfully restart your truck to call someone to come pick you up. Once you think that your cell phone died because you thought you forgot to recharge it, you look at your watch to see how long it will take you to get back to civilization or just a place to make a phone call. Only then realizing that your watch has stopped.

    If you were in the city you would notice that there are no lights on at all! People will be frantic and walking around more dumb than normal. If you are near a big city the sounds that you will hear would be the sounds of cars crashing because no stoplights work, the sounds of planes crashing and falling out of the sky, the sounds of panic and mayhem as elevators in big high rises plummet to the ground at incredible speeds.

    The best way to knock out the power grid is to have an HEMP. The only difference between an EMP and an HEMP is that an HEMP is detonated in the atmosphere between 20 and 50 kms. They have a line of sight effect, meaning that anything it could see would be reduced to nothing (power wise). So if the terrorists got a few dirty bombs on planes and set them to detonate at a specific time, then about 5 or 6 HEMP’s could knock out the power grid for about 75% of the planet. The power grid in the United States is rated at a D+. It would not take much to disable the U.S. and other countries.

    "It is not that I can and others can't. It is that I will and others won't."

    #46399
    Profile photo of GeorgiaSaint
    GeorgiaSaint
    Veteran
    member9

    Assuming it’s a high altitude burst (for example 250 miles above Des Moines, Iowa, so as to take out virtually the entire grid in one burst), I suspect it would indeed be seen. The few space test explosions of nuclear weapons in the early days were quite colorful and spectacular. But heard? I assume not, because there would be insignificant atmosphere up there to cause the usual pressure wave that we’d experience as movement of our ear drums. Even on earth, the largest nuclear blasts would not be heard hundreds of miles away, most likely – that that would require full atmospheric pressure for even that to occur.

    I’m with MountainBiker on the mechanism, though. Short of Little Kim managing to convince his generals to actually launch something like that against the US, I don’t even think Iran is stupid enough to actually destroy all useful equipment, nation wide, when re-supply of the continent is automatically difficult because of thousands of miles of ocean on both sides. Only if an enemy wasn’t willing to come in and exploit this nation, but was willing to make it an instant wasteland for decades if not centuries, would I expect it to be from one or two large, high altitude bursts. If used as a tactic (and I think it’s quite plausible), I also suspect it would come by other means, as MB said.

    GS
    "Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land."

    #46400

    Here is a useful site to go and look at.

    http://www.history.navy.mil/research/library/online-reading-room/title-list-alphabetically/h/hemp-and-hpm-devices.html

    "It is not that I can and others can't. It is that I will and others won't."

    #46402
    Profile photo of Roadracer
    Roadracer
    Survivalist
    member7

    Good points guys. I was pretty sure we would not hear the detonation, but the light was more problematic for me. Thank you Ernst for the link. I am going to do a little more research and report back.

    A cyber attack seems to be more doable. A would most likely be more of a challenge to recover from.

    #46403

    I have been thinking about it and Roadrunner, MountianBiker and GeorgiaSaint might be right. Although it is doable to do the HEMP’s with dirty bombs on the planes given that the terrorists would use the USA as a staging point to go to other countries being how our TSA is crap and all. But a cyber attack would be easier and considering how they have hacked into pretty much everything right now anyways, then a good idea.

    I would like to add if I were them then I would use the confusion of the hacking and turning off the power supply to launch a country wide attack on power plants of all kinds including the water treatment plants. This will ensure the crippling of the power grid and bring operations to a halt pretty damn quick.

    No I am not a terrorist but I have done counterterrorism and you would have to think outside the box on how to prepare and counter them. Just like this site says and implies. Just my two cents worth. Which is more than a peso. ;)

    "It is not that I can and others can't. It is that I will and others won't."

    #46404

    Some other reading. I know not everyone is from the States but you can compare your power grid and failures to ours.

    http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/energy/

    http://energy.gov/articles/top-9-things-you-didnt-know-about-americas-power-grid

    http://www.offthegridnews.com/grid-threats/new-power-grid-report-card-reveal-dangerous-vulnerabilities/

    http://www.resilience.org/stories/2008-05-07/u-s-electric-grid-will-it-be-our-undoing#

    http://www.inquisitr.com/2279678/power-grid-is-americas-biggest-weakness-new-report-conforms/

    I mean any terrorists or evil person hell bent in doing the U.S.A and or the world harm just has to look at the internet for a simple search and see how easy it is to accomplish. It is sad really. I think information like this should be just left off the internet and or the powers that be get off their ass and fix it.

    "It is not that I can and others can't. It is that I will and others won't."

    #46414
    Profile photo of L Tecolote
    L Tecolote
    Survivalist
    member8

    Only if an enemy wasn’t willing to come in and exploit this nation, but was willing to make it an instant wasteland for decades if not centuries, would I expect it to be from one or two large, high altitude bursts.

    Sounds like ISIS to me — you know … Zero’s other army.

    Cry, "Treason!"

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 7 months ago by Profile photo of L Tecolote L Tecolote.
    #46425
    Profile photo of GeorgiaSaint
    GeorgiaSaint
    Veteran
    member9

    Roadracer, by far the most difficult (and longest) to recover from would be a massive EMP from a nuclear weapon designed for that purpose (or from a massive solar storm with a coronal mass ejection – CME – that hit the earth squarely). The devastating and long term problem would come from the fact that power transformers would literally have their cores melt (the windings inside the transformers). The very large ones that you see at power sub-stations (not the big “cans” on the tops of neighborhood power poles) are not stockpiled. And if my understanding is correct, none were even manufactured in the U.S. until just the past few years (if they’re even in production yet). Power generation would be impossible, therefore manufacturing OF the parts necessary to start generating power again would be impossible – a vicious circle. We need power to operate the production facilities, but we don’t have power because we don’t have the pieces that the production facilities would produce if we do. We’d instantly be in the early 1800s again, and no way to recover for many years.

    For the most part, any electronic equipment with solid-state circuitry in it is vulnerable, so even if many of the solar panels survived (there is some evidence, supposedly, that they might), there would still be no controllers or inverters, so we’d be stuck with low voltage DC. So a massive CME or HEMP is the real nightmare scenario (assuming we didn’t get hit by a large number of highly radioactive nukes that spread fallout nationwide – but then that would go world wide as well).

    GS
    "Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land."

    #46426
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    GS is right that it would difficult to impossible to recover from an EMP or comparably sized CME. Urban/suburban areas would be done for. Small towns and rural areas that quickly figure out how to work as a community could survive.

    #46427
    Profile photo of GeorgiaSaint
    GeorgiaSaint
    Veteran
    member9

    L Tecolote, yes, it does sound like ISIS in a way, but I have a sneaking suspicion that their leadership is only using Islam as the excuse for spreading blood, terror, and horror around the globe. They are pure, fundamental evil, and they attract the severe personality disordered individuals that follow them (along with a few psychotics that thrive on the pure craziness of the blood and horror part). They WANT us to be paralyzingly afraid of them so they can achieve the results seen in Iraq when the Iraqis literally left all that good US-supplied equipment and ran! They weren’t necessarily all that afraid of dying in a “good” fight (i.e. by bullet or explosion), they were terrified of what would be done to them if they did NOT die before being captured. ISIS’s leaders remind me of the evil general in “The Postman” (Bethlehem or something like that), which we finally watched the other night. It’s all about power and material wealth, using terror to control and conquer. I think the Islam “thing” is merely the rationalization or cover story for their own masses (and potential “converts”).

    Plus, using Islam as their “cover,” it gives Zero his excuse to treat lightly, using PC “logic” and laws and presidential edicts to facilitate what ISIS is doing. I become more convinced by the day (if that’s even possible anymore) that his “fundamental transformation” of the United States was far more literal and comprehensive than all but a few insiders could have even comprehended.

    I think it would be just too much to pass up an entire continent. That might sound good to the masses in their movement, but I suspect the leadership would love to control this side of the earth as well, not just lay it waste for a generation or more. Just my guess. And I believe Zero should be taken at his word, at a level we SHOULD have taken him at when he made his campaign pledge about the “fundamental transformation.” He said just days ago that he’s going to double down and do everything in his power to complete his work in the year he has remaining (don’t remember his exact words, but that’s the very close equivalent). I was chilled when I heard him. I sensed that he was fumbling to find exactly the words he could get away with saying, because he couldn’t say what he was really wanting to say.

    I don’t listen to Sean Hannity – can’t stand listening to him. But yesterday I noticed that Congressman Louie Gohmert was guest-hosting for him. He had a guest who was formerly with DHS (Phil Haney). Mr. Haney related story after story about not only the protection of Islamic terrorists in this nation (literally protected to THE very top level of DHS), but also the millions of dollars of grant funding given BY the US government (including Department of Agriculture!!) to the mosque system in the US. He explained how the majority of the mosques in the US are owned, and therefore how the leadership of the mosques are controlled by that ownership authority. He explained what bright red flags existed with the female San Bernardino terrorist. It was a fascinating, if not chilling interview. I found a recording of that segment of the show, and it’s well worth listening to, assuming it lasts. The entire (commercial-free) version is only 31 minutes. If that doesn’t survive past today, here’s at least a recap I found of the segment from Hannity’s site:

    4:05PM EST – Phil Haney, a founding member of the Department of Homeland Security, has claimed work he was carrying out in 2012 could have stopped the San Bernardino terror attack, Haney believes that, if his program had been allowed to continue, both Farook and Malik would ‘very plausibly’ have been flagged to the security services over their connections to these organizations. He told Fox: ‘Either Syed would have been put on the no-fly list because of his association with that mosque, and or the K-1 visa that his wife was given may have been denied because of his affiliation with a known organization.’

    However, in 2012, Haney says that his team was paid a visit by the Department of State and its own Civil Liberties Civil Rights Division.

    Haney says officials accused of unfairly profiling Muslims because Tablighi Jamaat, the sub-group of Deobandi, was not on a list of specially designated terrorist organizations. Haney says he left the national center shortly afterwards and went back to Atlanta, and afterwards he found out the program he was working on had been shut down.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3355527/I-stopped-San-Bernardino-attack-Feds-shut-Whistleblowing-spook-claims-year-long-terror-investigation-quashed-government-didn-t-want-unfairly-profile-Islamic-groups.html#ixzz3vkitW6gS

    GS
    "Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land."

    #46430
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    It’s all about power and material wealth, using terror to control and conquer. I think the Islam “thing” is merely the rationalization or cover story for their own masses (and potential “converts”) GS

    My understanding/interpretation of Islam and how it has been used since it’s inception fits your description. No cover needed. What we see now is not new.

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