August 2, 2014 at 1:47 am #20864
Sometimes you can see what I suspect is the Plunge Protection team at work. Right at 3PM or 3:30 PM on a down day the market will suddenly reverse and the day';s losses will rapidly shrink, or even disappear altogether.August 2, 2014 at 4:08 am #20887
This is true , China would be affected , but it could also be part of the plan , we seem to overestimate our worth in the world . One of Brics goals is to replace the dollar with the yuan as the world trade currency . Yes china would feel the pain , but they are willing to take the hit for their currency to be the new world trade dollar . Look people , Brics stands for Brazil ( a foothold in the Americas for the coalition ) Russia ( a now capitalist nation with vast resources and strong military ) India ( we have outsourced medical and tech things there , they are a powerful emerging nation ) China ( need we say more ) South Africa ( rich in gold and diamonds ) in an economic coalition against the western NWO , what do we have to counter that if they decide to dump the dollar ? we are **** , led around by the nose by the same type of propaganda machine that had the german people believing the nazi’s , even when the Russians were ransacking berlin . We are the new Soviet Union , if it were not for a bloated military , we would be a second rate nation , we dont produce anything , and like the Soviet Union , we are one foot in the economic grave and another foot on a banana peel ………..wake TFU . Thats what happens when you give somebody else control over your prosperity , and the biggest military in the world ( china ) is not going to save you , if they get tired of our crap and decide to play hardball , dump the dollar , and crash our economy . Seriously , what do we think is being discussed and planed behind closed doors between these nations ? we are not talking economic representatives here , we are talking heads of state attending these meetings . Putin was on his way back from Brazil , when the Ukrainians shot down that liner by mistake , thinking it was his airplane coming back from that meeting . The fact that this coalition was even able to form , should tell us that the world is getting tired of our interference and meddling . I got chastised for saying that it wouldnt be a bad idea if China slapped sanctions on us . That would be the only way to wake up the guy on the street to who the real problem is , which is the US government , and actually do something about it . Otherwise , even in a collapse , the cause would be ambiguous to the guy on the street , and the same old crap would continue without the true bad guy being pointed out , again the US government . Rant over .August 3, 2014 at 3:49 am #20932
I still do not understand! Where and to what country is China going to sell there good to? Europe No! Europe will go down with the U. S.
So were is China going to make there money selling there products?
OK so China will be the world currency, good so till when? There gold will run out because they still will not have anyone to sell there products to.
Russia is one of the countries that does have a chance to make it. They have a lot of oil and gas which is more valuable then gold. China doesn’t have oil and gas.August 3, 2014 at 4:14 am #20933
They will continue to sell to both , the difference being that the dollar will no longer be accepted in trade , we will have to buy their currency or trade with gold , etc , or they will accept the dollar at an extremely devalued rate ( think Weimar republic ) but it will continue . That will effectively knock us out of the world policeman game , which will actually be doing us a favor . I would bet they have things like that figured out , thats what economic coalitions are for , we have put ourselves in the position that we MUST continue to buy things from them , no matter our troubles at home , because we dont make anything domestically of any quantity , or consequence , we make good bombs ………..but no money for defense spending shuts that down as well . Economics aside , China is a Communist nation , they are slowly shifting away from that towards socialism , but the old guard may wish that the change moves more slowly , crashing us , and slowing their trade would accomplish that internally . Russia doesnt really need us for anything , India , I have no clue about how they fit into the BRICS coalition , South Africa and Brazil are both 3rd world nations with good natural resources , they would notice little change in a western crash . 3rd world is 3rd world , poor is poor . If you look at the alliances that have been made , they could easily weather out the storm on their own , while they wait for the west to scramble around and restructure .August 3, 2014 at 5:45 am #20934
Okay, I’m no economist.
But how could china continue to sell to us and other collapsed countries who have no money? That don’t make no sense.
China is dependent upon our (and certain south african countries) purchasing their crap goods.
Most places whether or not they admit it, depend on the US for sales, technology and yes leadership, at least until zero.
We go down, so does everyone else. Very simple, whether or not the dollar is standard, it effects everything else.
And in case nobody has noticed, everywhere the chinks have gone in the last 30 years has been despoiled. They strip anything of value and the natives are left in squalor. Hardly anyone you want to do business with.August 3, 2014 at 12:29 pm #20938
In the US we may have given up our manufacturing base but we do have something that the world needs. Food. China cannot feed itself anymore, and their situation is growing worse each year in part due to over population & industrial expansion taking over agricultural lands and in part because they have more or less run out of water. Other countries are food importers too. The US is a major food exporter, and at the end of the day you can’t eat gold or yuans.August 3, 2014 at 1:27 pm #20941
“we do have something that the world needs. Food. China cannot feed itself anymore,”
If they return to a pure communist based system they don’t need to sell their goods. As long as they have the natural resources to support the population and don’t need to import many essential goods, they can support themselves in a self-sustaining society. China can trade for resources with excesses of their own or engage in territorial expansion to acquire additional resources. Adding additional human resources or losing a portion of the population would have little impact on the ruling party. I’m pretty certain China still has slave labor made up of criminals & dissidents. Adding or subtracting to those numbers could be managed just like any other resource.
When we think within our own sphere of normalcy the limitations of our own mores prevents us from seeing all possibilities.August 3, 2014 at 1:42 pm #20942
I think the chinks would rather rule in hell than serve in Heaven… in other words, be No. 1 in a world with diminished economic capacity than No 2 or 3 in a world with vast economic capacity…. I think they know that the US is about out of real wealth. Anything they get from us now is just fiat currency – phony baloney bullshit currency we just invented. It’s toilet paper.
They’ve been buying up gold like mad – even rumored to be moving it on military transports to keep it off the world’s radar. The BRICS nations already trade in gold and in their own currency – to hell with the dollar. Russia and the chinks have already held talks re: rolling out a new gold-backed reserve currency.
Our own government has, for the last 4 years, had talks between the IRS, Treasury, Department of Labor, etc, to discuss how to “legally” steal everyone’s IRA’s, savings, retirements, etc, just like in Greece, Spain, etc – where they closed the banks for a “bank holiday” so they could steal everyone’s money. People went mad, so they said you could withdraw “limited” funds – like, 100 Euros at a time. When the banks opened again, I think it was 60% of people’s cash was just gone. Some bullshit about people being “shareholders” in the bank if they had deposits, which made the theft “legal”. Or taking people’s retirements “for safekeeping” or some bullshit like that…
European Central Banks already operate at a negative interest rate. How long till the rest of the EU decides to go after people’s retirements, too?… it is the last pot of any wealth left. They cannot squeeze the middle class anymore. The .001% literally do not have enough money to make a difference and the poor have nothing worth taking… it’s like a giant snake eating it’s tail…
I think we’re going to be seeing the endgame soon… maybe not this week, or next month. Maybe even a year or two down the road – it takes time for the runup to a collapse – but we will be seeing it…
Like Selco says – **** happens slow, then it happens in a hurry.
The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1August 3, 2014 at 1:57 pm #20943
74, I think it would be hard for China to put the genie back into the bottle and go back to a purely communist based system. Too many people have gotten a taste of some degree of economic freedom. More importantly China does not have the natural resources to support their population. They need territorial expansion. They have built over or seriously polluted too much of their agricultural lands and overdrawing ground water has caused serious desertification of their more arid agricultural areas. They have extreme water shortages and pollution and their population continues to rise. They have been slowly colonizing Africa for their resources (this will not end well for the Africans) and I have no doubt they have eyes on Russia’s vast lightly populated eastern lands. They buy vast amounts of food from the US. If China lost a few hundred million of their population to war in order to achieve the status on the world stage that they believe is their destiny and their due, it will kill two birds with one stone so to speak, their over population and the acquisition of the resources and space they need. I believe that the Party hierarchy in China will do whatever it takes to maintain their grip on power, no matter the cost to their people or the world. The issues go far beyond just economic trade issues.August 3, 2014 at 2:01 pm #20944
Malgus wrote: think the chinks would rather rule in hell than serve in Heaven… in other words, be No. 1 in a world with diminished economic capacity than No 2 or 3 in a world with vast economic capacity… – See more at: http://community.shtfschool.com/forums/topic/dow-plunges-317-points-wipes-out-2014-gains/page/2/#post-20942
I agree completely. This is a more succinct way of saying what I just said in my prior post. They think their time has come and no price is too high in order to achieve it.August 3, 2014 at 5:02 pm #20956
Mountainbkr , your right in the fact that you cant eat gold or yuans , but WE have given up our manufacturing base , we need them now more than they need us , for some of the reasons you and Maglus stated . Let me put it to you guys this way , when WW2 broke out , the US did make almost all of its own products , we had a powerful industrial and manufacturing base , we also had the full and enthusiastic support of the American people to produce . Even then , it took a full three years for us to gear up to full bore . Now flash forward to today , we have a small base , we make few of our own products , we have a highly polarized population ………………..how long do you think it will take us to get back on our feet this time around with those negatives in place ? much less even get geared up to produce even the basics for everyday life . We make a lot of food ………whoopty doo , you and I cant tell that by the high cost of groceries , it doesnt benefit us now . Historically , agrarian societies have always been at the mercy of industrial ones , that wont change . Ukraine is a good example , they are the breadbasket of eastern europe , they produce vast amounts of food , they always have ………..they also have been the doormat for every nation with a powerful industry , everybody has invaded them , hell , I think even Poland attacked them once , all were successful . You dont make anything ……..you cant do anything when the SHTF . Just SayinAugust 3, 2014 at 7:28 pm #20962
Industry, we could ramp up production in a shorter time than many give credit for.
As one who has worked in a number of manufacturing industries, I can say that most of our needs could be handled by domestic production. The few industries that would need a jump start are high tech based. And even those wouldn’t take that long as long as people were comitted.
With so many CNC machines out there, parts could easily be subcontracted and high standards kept.
We need china a heck of a lot less than they need us, we just need to up our standards, and they can ‘up theirs’.August 3, 2014 at 7:43 pm #20963
I suppose we’ll find out one of these days who needs who more. All sides will suffer to some degree, some more than others.
For us here in the US I hope we will be smart enough to get out of our own way and relax the regulations that make it very difficult and expensive to build any kind of power generation, manufacturing, or general infrastructure anymore. Between the NIMBY crowd and the environmentalists, things are often taken to an extreme and projects are tied up in court for years.August 3, 2014 at 8:00 pm #20966
When they where communist they didn’t have much money or value which is what will happen to them the minute the U. S. and Europe collapse. They will not have anyone to sell to. They are very depended on selling there goods.
This is the reason they are buying gold with the dollar, but what they do not know is what is gold? Gold is just a valuable metal that is not used much. Silver is used more but remember that when the U. S. and Europe collapse there is not much that you can do with gold.
We will not be buying with gold because the people with not have jobs to make the money to buy gold so the Chinese will not have anyone to sell there products. It will be cheaper to make the product here in the great U. S. of A.
The collapse of the dollar may be the slow collapse of China. Russia is another problem. Russia has oil and gas which is much more valuable then gold. Russia will do OK. China will be asking Russia to buy there goods in exchange for gas and oil. But the Russians may not be very interested in the Chinese products since they really have not needed the products before.
The U. S.Dollar collapse will make the U. S. products much cheaper then the Chinese product and the quality is much higher. China has always known that a cheap dollar will collapse them because it makes our products cheaper then there’s world wide.August 3, 2014 at 8:14 pm #20968
“There is not much that you can do with gold.”
Gold is the best electrical conductor and does not corrode. Most advanced defence electrical circuits are plated in gold. Having a lot would be a great asset. There’s something to ponder a while.
They also control most of the rare earth deposits used in electronics.
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