December 9, 2014 at 2:18 am #31610
No I’m not selling the 1100. My son uses it for sport. I don’t intend to use any shotguns for defensive purposes it I can help it.December 9, 2014 at 5:06 am #31616
I am ignorant on the gun topic, outside of the fact that I do like shotguns. I have shot a Remington 1100 for the last 25 years, and never had an issue with it. That being said, I had a Benelli once, and a old sawed off police shotgun, don’t remember the make or model..and I still liked the 1100;….the only issue I have is the barrel is too long for home defense. But being a female, I think the shotgun is my best option. a hand gun, takes a lot more training which I don’t have, a deer rifle is ok, but if someone is running at me or one of my kids, I’ll probably miss on pure adrenaline…so I prefer a shotgun. That being said, I would think for what I would use it for, plus an occasional goose hunt, I’d be fine with a cheaper shotgun…but you guys will set me straight I am sure…:)December 9, 2014 at 10:39 am #31620
I got the Mossy 590, not a huge price, but it is solid…
"ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....
Cogito, ergo armatus sumDecember 9, 2014 at 6:50 pm #31638
<div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>Vep wrote:</div>If $$ was the only judge in durability or utility, AK’s would be worthless, disposable trash bin items. An AK doesn’t cost very much to make, and the black market price in Latin America for a select fire AKM is only about $300.
If polymer parts were that fragile, Glocks would disintegrate.
People spend a lot on a gun and get married to it. Never marry metal. The Benelli, while a good weapon, like the HK91 and many others it is seriously over priced for what it is on the US civilian market.
To break a polymer trigger housing on a Mossberg during field stripping takes an incredible level of ineptitude.
I’ve field stripped Mossbergs countless times and have yet to break a polymer trigger housing. I fired thousands of rounds out of them, and have yet to get a broken polymer trigger housing. I have seen Mossbergs take fantastic levels of abuse by myself and others, thousands of rounds fired by multiple people, no broken trigger housings.
I live in a salt water environment. I’ve seen corroded shell bases cause a casing to get stuck in a chamber, and the shooter got it unstuck by gripping the pump and slamming the buttstock into a tree trunk several times and the Mossberg worked fine afterwards.
A Mossberg is like an AK, not that expensive, but it keeps working and it gets the job done.
The broken trigger guards at your PD are by far the exception, not the rule. Furthermore, as you stated, they were broken due to repeated incompetent disassembly, not use.
If people don’t learn to properly take their weapon apart, they deserve a broken weapon. I’ve taken Mossbergs apart enough to know that to break a polymer trigger housing takes an extreme level of ineptitude or someone who is trying to break it.
You can break anything if you try. Sounds to me like a bunch of people that didn’t care or were trying to break them. Been there done that with government owned weapons, “Look at this, I bet it can’t take THIS!” … ‘crack’ ‘bend’ ‘break’. Ever seen anyone use their M16′s barrel as a pry bar to assemble a cot or fire a section of cleaning rod with a blank to kill a rabbit?
If polymer bothers people, swap it out for an all metal M590A1 part. There are only two significant parts on an M500 that are synthetic, and those can be swapped out. What pump shotgun survived the US Army’s test? A Mossberg 590A1.
What shotgun did the military use the most in Afghanistan and Iraq? They used mostly Mossberg 590′s and 500′s. They have a milspec version of the 500 that has a 590A1 trigger housing and safety.
Towards the later part of the war they wanted to go semi-auto and started buying the Benelli, but intial deployments of the Benelli were halted due to problems with the Benelli cycling the breaching round. Most of the shotguns in service are still Mossbergs.
As for the Model 12, the last one was made half a century ago. Yeah, it’s metal, and so are all but two parts of a Mossberg 500, and they are easier to get new parts to store ahead of time. Modern pump and semi-auto shotguns are made on CNC machine tools, even the ones made in Turkey. You can simply buy another barrel and toss it on and the fit is good.
Okay, the AK, I’ve worn one out to the point of being dangerous, improper heat treatment on factory gun.
The Glock ;can crack and crystalize but it takes @20 years for that to become an issue normally. But I’ve sent 6+ back to the factory with cracked frames, all around the 20 year mark.
Ineptitude? Of course, were it not for stupid people gunsmiths would have a lot less to do. But then so would cops.
But one has to consider human stupidity in the equation.
Great uncle festus can’t keep from fiddling with things and forcing them apart, he’s likely to bugger something up. And the less he can break, the better.
Improper assembly and disassembly is a consideration that has to be looked at.
Like those who reassemble an AR bolt backwards so it ejects into the receiver, it can and has been done.
Get and store new parts, sounds great. I have roughly 2000lbs of parts and bits of junk in my shop, I know because I had to move it twice in two years. And despite all that, I’m constantly buying and scrounging parts or repairing those that can’t be gotten any other way. Some parts just aren’t available regardless.
The biggest thing I’m saying is buy quality, not just because it’s more expensive, but because it’s going to last. Needing less repairs or replacement is a good thing, especially when there are no gunsmiths or spare parts.December 9, 2014 at 6:52 pm #31639
<div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>74 wrote:</div>Whirly,<br>
My Swede is a $400.00 gun now, when i bought it new in cosmoline about 1990 they were only 75-100, this was before Kimber bought all the excess surplus to rebarrel the actions. That’s my point, cost is not is the only factor when choosing.
Agreed, cost is not the only factor, but too many people make it the only factor.
Again, buy the highest quality you can afford.December 9, 2014 at 7:12 pm #31641
<div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>oldfatguy wrote:</div>No offense, Whirlibird, but I have to challenge you on Savage RIFLES (not shotguns). Savage rifles are (or were in the days of 1970′s model 110′s) tack drivers right out of the box. They were rugged, and reliable, just not as polished or pretty as the Remington 700′s or the Winchester 70′s–both GREAT rifles, but not better, in my experience.
Okay, I’ve had a number of model 70’s in the shop this year.
For example, one was a first year production, has been used in a saddle scabbard daily and looks it, it was in for a scope mount. Still shoots great and works perfectly. Couldn’t talk them into a finish job.
The next, mount change from cheap to better and adding a recoil pad.
The last, a severe cleaning, the bore was heavily coppered up.
Zero parts breakage.
Remington 700’s, lots of trigger issues, frozen triggers, frozen (rusted in place) ejectors, and one broken extractor.
Savages, frozen ejectors, rusted extractor springs, magazine spring failures, one defective factory safety.
Mauser’s, one improperly fit aftermarket safety, scope mounts and recoil pads.
The Savages, tack drivers? Generally. They still have some of the best factory barrels out there. But some of the Rube Goldberg things they have done such as the detachable magazine are almost laughable in their sheer frailty.
Great for the once a year deer hunter, but for the guides north of me who deal with the Grizzly bears daily?
One of my friends and customers started his career with a service this past year. He took a .30-06 110 with him. Within two weeks he brought it home and bought a .45-70 Marlin to get him through until we finish his .458WM Mauser. Also with him, an 870 slug gun and Ruger .44 Mag Blackhawk. Next year, he’s taking a G20 instead of the B’Hawk, easier to carry, shoot and more BB’s.
His 110? Just finished repairing the bolt, it was full of rust and non functional after only a few days.
Certain guns just handle the abuse better.December 9, 2014 at 7:15 pm #31642
<div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>tukie2 wrote:</div>I am ignorant on the gun topic, outside of the fact that I do like shotguns. I have shot a Remington 1100 for the last 25 years, and never had an issue with it. That being said, I had a Benelli once, and a old sawed off police shotgun, don’t remember the make or model..and I still liked the 1100;….the only issue I have is the barrel is too long for home defense. But being a female, I think the shotgun is my best option. a hand gun, takes a lot more training which I don’t have, a deer rifle is ok, but if someone is running at me or one of my kids, I’ll probably miss on pure adrenaline…so I prefer a shotgun. That being said, I would think for what I would use it for, plus an occasional goose hunt, I’d be fine with a cheaper shotgun…but you guys will set me straight I am sure…:)
Just keep an eye on your gas rings, they do wear out and account for roughly 75% of all the 1100 issues.December 9, 2014 at 7:18 pm #31643
<div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>Tolik wrote:</div>Interesting you should say that , when people moved West in the 1800′s , they only had so much they could carry , they had to be very careful , they also had to make a choice about what firearms they would take along . The shotgun was the preferred firearm for settlers . Not that it was the best , but more because it gave them more options .
Most settlers carried both rifle and shotgun.
The earlier settlers carried smothbores that could be loaded with shot or ball.
When they hit the west, the rifles saw much more use. The larger animals not in shotgun range, especially for slugs in their infancy.December 9, 2014 at 10:49 pm #31647
How is the quality of ptr91. Does anyone have any personal experience with it. This entire thread has been very informative.December 10, 2014 at 12:43 am #31652
I think you can get your answers from PTR.
“PTR makes many of the parts for its rifles here in the United States, however, for economic reasons, when high quality surplus military parts become available PTR does make use of those parts as well.
US made RCM trunnion for the HK91/G3 series. Machined completely from ordnance grade 9310 enhanced steel and heat treated to exact HK specifications. This item is the best USA made trunnion on the market. Machined to spec and are to custom ground where the barrel presses in, making the install painless. There is no finer US made trunion available.”
I currently have a clone made by the infamous Century Arms, it runs flawlessly. I would buy a PTR 91 in a heart beat.December 10, 2014 at 6:19 am #31664
<div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>Angus wrote:</div>How is the quality of ptr91. Does anyone have any personal experience with it. This entire thread has been very informative.
The PTR rifles except for a small number that had improper chamber fluting are equal to or better than the originals.
Much of their parts are made by/on the Portuguese machinery if memory serves,
Obe thing about the fluted chamber design, some of them really don’t like commercial brass, its softer and can have serious case head separations. Stick to military brass if you can.
However the conmon fallacy stating that you can’t reload the brass, is an untruth. You can reload it, you just have a little more work involved.
Personally I prefer the FAL, its user serviceable, more ergonomic and the gas system is much easier to deal with.
I can build FALs off the back of my truck with a hitch mounted vise and a single bag of tools. The G3 (PTR) requires a welder and grinder. Not so good for the home builder/serviceability.
There’s a number of opinions about both guns over on the “newrhodesian forums”, by guys who used both in combat.
Almost to a man, they preferred the FAL.December 10, 2014 at 10:24 am #31665
Rhodesian FAL (gun is not converted yet, will post proper camo pic second)
OWNER EDIT: Damn flag cost 75% of what the gun cost!!! (dumba$$ should have bought 2 guns instead of the flag! photo-chop is FREE…)
"ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....
Cogito, ergo armatus sum
Attachments:You must be logged in to view attached files.December 15, 2014 at 9:59 am #32053
Another vote for the mighty Kalashnikov. I picked up a Saiga SGL21-61 converted to original configuration by Arsenal Inc years back. I also own a couple of WASR series(one converted to 5.56 NATO), a Yugo M92(current truck gun), as well as a couple of semi RPKs converted to DMR (Designated Marksman Rifle) status. I owned a few AR rifles, and in the right conditions, they failed miserably.
For the truly “reach out and touch someone” I have a .308 bolt gun and a 7mm Mag.
Never challenge a man who has nothing left to lose.December 17, 2014 at 4:53 am #32263
Often, one’s weapon choice for survival is all too often dictated by need, availability, circumstance, and most of all, economics. The settlers in the American west after the US Civil War were a good example of this.
One of the biggest waves of western migration in the 19th Century occurred after the American Civil War. This was accelerated by the ‘Long Depression’ (1873-1879). A huge a number of the settlers that traveled west with their families were from America’s lower economic strata, America’s working poor, and heading west was their best, if not only opportunity to break the status quo.
Being very low on funds, the weapons a great many carried were far from modern for that time. They bought the military surplus guns that were reliable but dirt cheap and being sold for peanuts in every hardware store in the eastern US at that time.
Several years earlier, when the American Civil War broke out, the US Federal Government quickly sent purchasing agents to Europe to buy up every last inventory of military surplus weapons that were not flintlocks, sitting in every warehouse they could scour.
This accomplished two things:
1) It allowed the North to arm a lot of men very rapidly as a stop gap measure until Northern industrial might could catch up with demand.
2) It kept the South from doing the same thing with those same weapons.
Most of those guns were already obsolete at the time. They were typically a smoothbore caplock, generally about .54 caliber, but caliber could vary.
The war was still going on when almost all of these guns were warehoused as obsolete and no longer needed. After the war, the government cleared them out to wholesalers for a song.
Settlers heading west on a limited budget needed something that could go bang, and these surplussed smoothbores sold for a fraction of what a new breech-loading repeater cost. For a great many settlers, it was all they could afford, and it got the job done.
For many, these guns helped fend off starvation during the first critical season as their initial crops and gardens grew, and during subsequent emergencies.
Being the equivalent of a 28ga shotgun or better in bore diameter and smoothbore, they were often used as shotguns to harvest birds and other medium and small game. With a pumpkin ball or buckshot, they could harvest deer and other large game.
If a settler ran out of small diameter lead shot for birds and the like, they would do what the Indians did and use carefully selected river gravel or they would fabricate ‘drip’ shot by spooning molten lead into a bucket of water through a screen or down a ramp. A pumpkin ball or buckshot could be made with a mold bought back east, or in a pinch they could even be made with a homemade wooden mold.
A common saying in the Old West was, “A man with a shotgun never starved.”December 17, 2014 at 5:43 am #32280
For general use out to 250 yards I use an AK47 and 74, I like the 5.45×39 round used in the AK74. For medium to long range my DMR of choice is the M14 with a good piece of glass the 7.62×51 is good to 1000 yards. For long range and beyond I use a 338 Lapua Magnum round fired from a Savage action bedded in an accuracy international stock. For close range I use a Vepr 12 shotgun, being mag fed I find it to be a very fast loading versatile shotgun.
I find the AK’s including the Vepr 12 are dependable and easy to maintain. So they would be my main choice as well.
Sabres out! Sabres ready!
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