November 18, 2014 at 5:08 pm #29646
No doubt there….. I finally got my magic number of .22 and am now getting components to hit my magic numbers for 9mm, .45 ACP, and .223. Just picked up that derned .357 so I am now working on getting several hundred of those put back as well. Seems prices are getting back to the point where I can afford to blow off several hundred rounds on a weekend without my bank account crying.
http://ageofdecadence.comNovember 19, 2014 at 10:17 pm #29788
I’m just taking advantage of the lull in the storm before the next panic to make sure I have plenty of reloading supplies on hand, mostly powder, primers, wads, and lead. All of my reloading equipment, except my molds, lead dipper, and melting pot, fits into a single military surplus .50 cal ammo can.December 3, 2014 at 1:04 am #31061
I can get within 100 yards.
Maybe within 50.
So any guns I use only need to hit at 100 yards or less, every time.
Thats a pretty big list.
@Vep – in terms of survival shooter reloading I think a shotgun platform works really good (where you reload the shells over and over again), abit sloppy but it basically turns the shotgun into a muzzleloader. But I think the .45-70 ought to be looked into too, because there’s a fairly cheap one of those on the market. It can take (plentiful) 45 slugs. Im not sure about the primers it uses but its sturdy brass, and most importantly the barrel is rifled so you could get at least two football fields out of that while a shotgun cant even touch it.December 3, 2014 at 3:05 am #31089
The 45-70 cartridge (like its cousin, the 444 Marlin) is a POWERFUL cartridge for hunting or defense. If you’re a handloader and want to use the heaviest possible bullets, select a Marlin lever gun. Theirs is the strongest action (as well as the Browning lever gun), and most manuals have special loading specs for them. They can reach 600-800 yards in the right hands, and a 300 gr. .458 bullet will easily cycle through the lever action, heavier bullets require feeding one at a time. If you want or need a scope, they eject brass from the side, not top like the weaker Winchester action. My suspicion is that they will defeat most body armor.December 3, 2014 at 4:50 am #31095
@oldfatguy – I know right?
This was just my idea off of watching a youtube video about a man who uses a break action shotgun as a Muzzleloader. He loads up the shotgun shells just like he’s muzzle-loading, he knocks the old primer out and puts a fresh one in, he pours the powder, puts in a wad, puts in shot and another wad. So each one is technically been hand-loaded but its been done in a muzzleloading fashion. Could just keep using the same old shell casings over and over again.
But my question is, why not just use something like the 45-70. I saw a rifle for about $300 and thats not far off from the price of a shotgun. And a few boxes full of primers for a .45-70 plus a box of 50 rounds… and you would basically be set on that thing. Virtually any kind of .45 slug would do, including .45 muzzleloading projectiles. And the casing for a .45-70 is quite long and capable of accomodating non-standard loading (eg, bullet seated below the neck, wadding inserted, stuff like that).
You could also shoot subcaliber slugs just like a shotgun if you didnt care about range, seems kinda stupid to use a rifle that way but in that kind of survival situation if it works without blowing up on you – thats a gun that shoots. I also believe the rifle I saw is a breech-loader, which means that it doesnt matter how strong the load is, you could shoot a light load for small game.
I believe it was an H&R Handi-Rifle single shot in 45-70, gunbroker has em for $250 just looking it up real quick (the cautious aspect would be making sure you only used a safe amount of powder, as it always is in muzzleloading, and careful measurements are imperitive)December 4, 2014 at 10:13 pm #31257
<div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>oldfatguy wrote:</div>The 45-70 cartridge (like its cousin, the 444 Marlin) is a POWERFUL cartridge for hunting or defense. If you’re a handloader and want to use the heaviest possible bullets, select a Marlin lever gun. Theirs is the strongest action (as well as the Browning lever gun), and most manuals have special loading specs for them. They can reach 600-800 yards in the right hands, and a 300 gr. .458 bullet will easily cycle through the lever action, heavier bullets require feeding one at a time. If you want or need a scope, they eject brass from the side, not top like the weaker Winchester action. My suspicion is that they will defeat most body armor.
The 1895 Marlins will safely handle 405+ grain bullets, its the 500s that are too long when seated normally in the case, however you can deep seat them and they will them work through tje action.
The 1886 action is actually a stronger action than the Marlin. Especially the modern steel versions made recently.
The .444 isn’t as versatile as the .45-70, the rifling and commonly used pistol bullets really limit it.
The .45-70 may not defeat armor, but what gets hit will certainly notice it. An icicle of kevlar is unhealthy when it pushes into one.December 4, 2014 at 10:28 pm #31258
I received Hornady’s 2015 product catalog in the mail today. It looks like their FTX 265 gr. bullet might help the 444 perform better than in the past using pistol bullets since the FTX line of bullets was designed for lever guns. just sayingDecember 4, 2014 at 10:58 pm #31259
About the video of reloading shotgun shells. A person could do this but why? It is so much more convenient to have a pocket full of shells that can be dropped into the chamber in seconds. If you only had one hull to use after shtf well okay go for it, but I would rather reload 50 of them at home. Anyway it so much easier to do it properly at home with a few simple tools and have reliable ammo to use in seconds.
Plus there are problems with the concept. A plastic shotgun shell is more elastic then a brass case. It will expand in the chamber then contract. A brass case will not spring back as much as the plastic hull. Getting the fired 45-70 case back into the chamber may present a problem. Consistent crimping on the bullet helps with accuracy. With an unsized fired case the bullet will drop into the case or it may fall out. Now you have a powder horn, loose primers and bullets. it defeats the reason to have a modern gun.December 4, 2014 at 11:20 pm #31260
74, that is all true, but I think WIZ is just showing some “possibilities”.
It is not too far fetched for his reality, either.
"ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....
Cogito, ergo armatus sumDecember 4, 2014 at 11:39 pm #31261
<div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>74 wrote:</div>Whirly,<br>
I received Hornady’s 2015 product catalog in the mail today. It looks like their FTX 265 gr. bullet might help the 444 perform better than in the past using pistol bullets since the FTX line of bullets was designed for lever guns. just saying
The 260-265 gr bullets are the best choice for the .444, anything heavier doesn’t stabilize properly, lighter aren’t built for rifle use basically. But this leaves you with a limited ammo/bullet selection unlike the .45-70.December 5, 2014 at 12:15 am #31262
RGR lol ya ok.
Whirly your right.December 6, 2014 at 8:08 am #31349
For me, space is limited and I keep my logistics simple. So, for a centerfire longarm, I tend to focus primarily upon the 12ga shotgun. I have had many military style weapons in the past, including many AK’s (yes, I do like the AK very much), HK’s, AR’s, etc, but I have multiple reasons for the choice of a shotgun. It’s one of the best weapons for defense in a marine environment where everything is often moving to some extent or another. It’s also the most practical hunting weapon possible, especially for a coastal estuary.
When you have a weapon that you will rely upon long term, you essentially adopt an entire weapon system if you want long term sustainability. So, it’s a logistical nightmare and a waste of resources to have too many weapon types. Also, some weapon types, such as military style rifles, have a very narrow band of utility for civilians facing full spectrum survival, and they can represent a significant tie-up of resources. When you travel, military style rifles can become a legal white elephant.
One exception to this could be handguns. They are small, most of them are seldom fired, and they can be stashed in all sorts of interesting places.
If you want the ballistics of a .45-70, you can get similar ballistics to that with a 12ga shotgun, a rifled barrel, and .50 cal sabot ammo. Unlike other types of shotgun slugs, you have to have some form of rifling for sabots. Modern rifled shotgun barrels and sabots have gotten pretty accurate in the last couple of decades.
Most modern pump or semi-auto shotguns can quickly change their barrels. The Mossberg 500 series is one of the easiest to do this with. You jack the pump back, unscrew the nut at the end of the magazine, and the barrel pops off. Putting on another barrel is just as easy.
For a modern pump or semi-auto you generally have three options on using a rifled barrel:
1) A regular rifled barrel with iron sights basically turns your shotgun into a .73 caliber rifle. If you want an optic, you need to use a receiver mount.
2) A ‘cantilever’ barrel with no iron sights has a dog-leg scope mount that that extends out over the top of the receiver. It keeps the scope on the barrel and zeroed when the barrel is removed from the shotgun.
3) A rifled choke tube (works surprisingly well), is simply a choke that screws into the end of a smoothbore barrel that is threaded for chokes. It is cylinder bore with rifling, and it tends to extend out past the muzzle a ways. It will give about 3″ or more of rifling to impart spin on a slug.
For hunting larger game in the USA with a shotgun, sabot ammo is some of the most popular. There are many commercial loads, but you can load your own. Shotgun shells are easy and simple to reload, and they operate at about 1/2 the chamber pressure of a .22LR. You can buy sabot jackets that hold .50 cal bullets ($15 for a pack of 50). Sabots are loaded into the shell with a gas seal wad (no cup).
The commercial sabot loads prefer to use jacketed bullets like the Hornady ballistic tip. I’ve seen handloaders use cast .50 cal pistol bullets and .50 cal conical muzzleloader bullets. Muzzle velocity is generally around 1900 fps.
A 12ga is .73 caliber, and you can shoot conventional 12ga slugs out of either a smoothbore or a rifled barrel. Out of a smoothbore, they are normally considered a 100 yard or less item, but I have seen decent hits well out beyond that. A conventional shotgun slug has a hollow base and operates much like a badminton birdie or an airgun pellet.
My favorite homemade slug, for which I have a mold, is the Lee 1oz (437.5 grain) ‘keyed’ slug. They are easy and cheap to make. The Lee slugs are kind of ‘wad slug’ that uses a standard plastic shotgun wad as a sabot jacket. They can be used with either a rifled or a smoothbore barrel.
With a common 2-3/4″ 12ga shotgun shell, all of the payloads tend to weigh about the same, whether it’s birdshot, buckshot, or a slug. Birdshot is very common in that gauge and is sold in bulk, making it inexpensive. If you have on hand a slug mold and a buckshot mold, you can ‘re-purpose’ birdshot loads into buckshot or slugs by opening the end of the shells up (or gutting the tips off), melt and cast the birsdhot into something else.You can then refold it, or if you cut it, use an overshot card (for buckshot) and a roll crimp.December 6, 2014 at 7:37 pm #31396
The 500 is a decent shotgun, but for a little more money I’d rather have the Ithaca 37 with a short riot type barrel and a 24″ rifle sighted barrel.
The 37 is steel but lightweight, is easier to make parts for, less of them and they’re built to last. The barrels interchange as easily as the 500, LAPD and NYPD both kept them for years even after Ithaca was gone foe a while. one test NYPD firearms trainers did years ahowas shoot an example of each, 870, 500, 37, with full power buckshot until they wouldnt fire anymore, the 37 kept going.December 6, 2014 at 9:10 pm #31403
The Dragons breath rounds and dragons slug are interesting , I have some of them , may prove useful in the right situation .December 6, 2014 at 10:30 pm #31412
Whirli, not doubting you for a minute, but once again you leave me wanting MORE INFO!!!
"ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....
Cogito, ergo armatus sum
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