August 15, 2014 at 6:35 pm #22090
Bugs Bunny: "I speak softly, but I carry a big stick."
Yosemite Sam: "Oh yeah? Well I speak LOUD! and I carry a BIGGER stick! and I use it, too!" BAM!August 15, 2014 at 7:17 pm #22097
Dreamer, I would just put in a mix of perennials to camouflage my vegetables. Im thinking the bit about water can only get worse.August 15, 2014 at 8:29 pm #22100
Maybe we need a new post just on this to keep up to the latest news. Right now it is happening in a small amount of states but like you said it may grow.August 18, 2014 at 1:13 am #22384
Some of my own research here. Perhaps others will find this useful.
I’ve thought quite a bit especially about proximity to prisons, jails, public housing and otherwise downtrodden localities.
I studied several of the northeastern states, as shown, as well as several northwestern states. ‘Seems to me that almost every state has plenty of risk. Wherever you go , there you are.August 18, 2014 at 1:15 am #22389August 18, 2014 at 1:15 am #22393August 18, 2014 at 1:18 am #22395
Interesting study, is there any of the southern states?August 18, 2014 at 1:34 am #22398
Hi Freedom. I haven’t studied any of the southern states YET. But I have family in Texas, Arkansas, Florida, Tennessee and Kentucky, so eventually I’ll get to all of those as well as their neighboring states.
In any case, I believe that most of the western southwestern states, especially California, Nevada, and Arizona, are at extreme risk of drought and desertification, and will likely see migration to the Midwestern and eastern states…. My concentration, therefore, is typically on the northeastern, eastern, southeastern , and Midwestern states….August 18, 2014 at 1:59 am #22405
Have you read Joel Skousen Strategic Relocation? He has done this for each state showing risks etc I think. I personally am concerned more with an extreme weather or earth change event….and want to be high up At least 800 ft above sea level, on leeward side of mountains….first….then I considered the other stuff. Just me.August 18, 2014 at 8:26 pm #22492
Slike and tweva, I have looked into these for years and have found that everywhere in the U.S. you have something to lookout for. Florida where I live has hurricanes and since 1970 when I was in high school they have been telling my it would be underwater. South Beach is still there the same way it was in 1970’s and hurricanes come and go. hurricane Andrew was 1992, it’s 22 years ago. The hurricane before Andrew was 30 years for Andrew. Drought not here for now, it has rains 5 times a week for the last 3 months here.
Downtown Miami is booming with one building after another being built from 50 to as high as 70 stories high. They can’t build them fast enough. The condos sale before they finish the building. It is crazy here. Many of the rich from other countries are buying condos here. I go to downtown Miami and see the same level that the ocean had 40 years ago.
So I am good with a hurricane every 20 to 30 years. Global warning is small, I see the same 90’s as I did when I was a kid here, Aug always gets the 90’s here.
So if there is any rise in the Ocean it is so slow that maybe my kids will see it but not me.August 21, 2014 at 10:03 pm #22891
Oh boy….where to start….
First, this is my opinion, not any sort of mandate. If I say “you should”, it’s a suggestion, not a condemnation of contrasting viewpoints. I agree with Selco’s viewpoint: I’ll read your opinion, even if I think it sucks, and I might even carry on a civil debate to highlight my reasoning or to share my experience, but at the end of the day, I honestly have no expectations that I am going to sway anyone to my way of thinking if they already have a determination that their way is “better”. Hell, it might be better. My objective here isn’t to change your mind; it’s to share my knowledge and experience in the hopes that someone who might still be on the fence on a topic can learn something, or at least determine a direction to explore, even if it’s ultimately rejected. If you’re offended by an opposing or tangential viewpoint, that doesn’t make me a troll. I think that’s enough on that. I should copy this and make this my “intro” post.
I support the idea that the decision to bug-in/bug-out is entirely dependent on the situation. Almost everyone on here “knows” the impending disaster looming just over the horizon: EMP/solar flare/grid collapse; economic collapse; totalitarian state take-over; invasion; climate change; race wars; civil war; WWIII; pandemic disease…ad infinitum. Every scenario will merit a response which, while perhaps similar to another scenario, is ultimately unique to that situation. The term “situation” includes a slew of data points: location, event, populace response, state response, etc. To say “I will bug-out at the earliest signs of trouble” or “I will defend my home from the zombie horde” is to limit your ingenuity and intuition. In Selco’s experience, rural dwellers had it easier, but in Ferfal’s experience, urbanites had more security to some degree. Neither is wrong, and neither is right. They are two experiences to learn from and knowledge to add to your skillset.
I highly suggest anyone mulling the matter over get to know, as much as possible, GARDEN PLOT, the CAPSTONE exercises, and REX84. Read the National Defense Resources Preparedness Executive Order.
In the event of major or total collapse, the government would most likely:
1. Secure major metropolitan areas, particularly ones with manufacturing capabilities, especially cities where military equipment manufacturing occurs. Travel into and out of the secured cities will likely be restricted or heavily controlled. Urban areas with lawlessness or civil disturbances would be sectorized, with hot sectors isolated. Non-hostiles in the hot sectors will be pretty much on their own until some agency can clear it, which can take a very long time, depending on the nature of hostile elements.
2. Food production areas will fall under control of the USDA. They won’t come and seize your farm, at least not physically; they don’t have the manning, training, or gumption to make it productive. What they will seize will be the product of your farm, and I would expect some sort of quota. Other than the product, they aren’t going to care much what happens. Larger farms will have priority in the event of need for assistance, whether that’s security or resources. The higher the farms capability, the higher on the priority list. (Executive Order 10998)
3. Expect conscription of able-bodied males, whether that’s into the military or into labor pools. Don’t scoff; check out Executive Order 11000 and 11001.
4. Housing will fall under the Housing and Home Finance Administrator (i.e. government-sponsored squatters). (Executive Order 11004)
5. Everyone will be required to register with, as odd as it seems at first, the Post Office. (Executive Order 11002)
If you’re literally heading for the hills (or desert, or woods, whatever), you’ll likely avoid all this government control, but you’re also in no-man’s land, the true WROL scenario. At least until things in the cities are stabilized. Again, this can take months or years, depending on the scope.
It’ll suck being under the government thumb. A la Katrina, I expect weapons confiscations, rationing, and a very serious lack of actual policing. It’ll also suck being out in the wilds. It really comes down to what you’re comfortable with.August 21, 2014 at 10:28 pm #22903
Razerback, welcome to the forum and thank you for you well reasoned comments.August 21, 2014 at 10:47 pm #22904
Sounds beautiful on paper doesn’t it. Except it has never been done in the history of the world to control 320 million people where confiscations of another 300 million + weapons. Not only will it take years but they may not win because they would need a 100% dedicated army of at less 10 million that would not turn on them with there own weapons.
This would have happen years ago if it was so simple but it is not. By the first year the government may lose over 1 million in the military from turn goats to the ones that get them self’s killed by the people.
Just look at all the wars we have been in! Not one has worked out the way it was on paper.
Katrina was a test run in an area that was not ready like the rest of the south. We will see if they can do that in Texas, Arizona, or even Florida which each one will be a war like they have never seen before.
Sure they are thinking about it, but without gun control it will be hard. I only see a grid down of the country as one of the only ways to do this and even then you have war all over. It is still a no guarantee of a winner.August 21, 2014 at 11:00 pm #22908
Razorback welcome, and I echo 74’s comments and add, I hope no one would fault or judge you for such a well articulated post. I loved your comment: ” My objective here isn’t to change your mind; it’s to share my knowledge and experience in the hopes that someone who might still be on the fence on a topic can learn something, or at least determine a direction to explore”. “When we quit trying to convince and begin to seek to learn if others may bring new knowledge, we begin the journey to wisdom” (source unknown).
Thank you for sharing, I learned some things (i.e. Executive Order #’s)
StingrayAugust 21, 2014 at 11:33 pm #22913
Welcome WRB (warpedrazorback is too long to type so for me you are WRB going forward). It’s good to have such an articulate person join the group. If I were the fed. gov. I’d see that as a reasonable plan myself but I expect they’d need years to implement it. The logistics are not on their side. I think we got a good look at their capabilities in that cluster f. called Katrina. And they had days advance notice on that one and they still couldn’t muster a meaningful or coordinated response on a timely basis. Where I do think the scenario you describe being able to be pulled off is with a gradual implementation in advance of a national scale SHTF scenario. Sort of like the proverbial frog in a pot of hot water. A little and a little and one day we wake up and its all in place.
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