Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 153 total)
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  • #20253
    bushrat
    bushrat
    Survivalist
    member4

    Amanda11, I just want to say welcome. This is a good site with a great deal of good info. It can seem a bit weird at times, but they’re good people with the best of intentions.

    I enjoyed your post very much and look forward to future input from you. God bless and enjoy.

    #20286
    Profile photo of Amanda11
    Amanda11
    Survivalist
    member3

    Thank you to everyone, I have really enjoyed the conversation! It’s good to “meet” all of you, and get so many different perspectives on situations. After browsing some of the topics I know there is a lot of knowledge here, and I look forward to learning as much as possible.

    #20368
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    <div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>Anselm wrote:</div>Whirlibird, I’m glad your friends did so well with their trailers. Yet, for each such case that you point out, I’m sure that you yourself can point out another in which people were forced to abandon all they were carrying.

    I’m only saying that people should do whatever they do because they themselves think it’s best, not because others do it. “Monkey see, monkey do” is not always a good survival policy.

    I’ve been through my share of major floods, major epidemics and some earthquakes and, each time, I’ve had to do something different. What others thought needed to be done was never the issue.

    What is truly alarming is that much of what befalls us is done to us on purpose by those much higher up. Remember what Franklin Roosevelt said: “People think things just happen. Nothing just happens; it’s all planned.” So, if we all do the conventional “preps”, we shall likely fall right into the trap they’ve set. They know perfectly well what preppers do, and I’m sure they’re laughing and laughing and laughing.

    There is often a reason people all do the same thing, often because it works.

    We can argue, banter and bicker the finer points until doomsday.
    But logically, there are reasons for all we do.
    And often going against logic and common knowledge makes one an example of what not to do.

    As to the .gov, for most of us, what they do has little effect on reality.
    They can ban/prohibit things, but people don’t have to comply, and seldom really do.
    All that really happens is people go underground.

    They can’t stop anything, just make things more difficult.

    I look at most things from the practical side.
    My camping gear will serve for bugging out, power outages, and severe weather. Worst case scenario, I can build and stock a cabin with the same gear and start over.
    Sure someone could take it forcibly, but lighting could also destroy my house, which is more likely?

    Having spent weeks without power during winter, I tend to plan for such. Having dealt with floods, I plan accordingly. Having been unemployed because of an injury, I plan accordingly.

    Conventional wisdom has its points. For example, never get involved in a land war in Russia. The French and Germans both failed to learn this pearl of conventional wisdom.

    Being unconventional has its place, but one must still be careful.
    I look at the convention and see if it has merit and go from there.

    #20506
    Profile photo of Anselm
    Anselm
    Survivalist
    member6

    <div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>Whirlibird wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>Anselm wrote:</div>Whirlibird, I’m glad your friends did so well with their trailers. Yet, for each such case that you point out, I’m sure that you yourself can point out another in which people were forced to abandon all they were carrying.

    I’m only saying that people should do whatever they do because they themselves think it’s best, not because others do it. “Monkey see, monkey do” is not always a good survival policy.

    I’ve been through my share of major floods, major epidemics and some earthquakes and, each time, I’ve had to do something different. What others thought needed to be done was never the issue.

    What is truly alarming is that much of what befalls us is done to us on purpose by those much higher up. Remember what Franklin Roosevelt said: “People think things just happen. Nothing just happens; it’s all planned.” So, if we all do the conventional “preps”, we shall likely fall right into the trap they’ve set. They know perfectly well what preppers do, and I’m sure they’re laughing and laughing and laughing.

    There is often a reason people all do the same thing, often because it works.

    We can argue, banter and bicker the finer points until doomsday.<br>
    But logically, there are reasons for all we do.<br>
    And often going against logic and common knowledge makes one an example of what not to do.

    As to the .gov, for most of us, what they do has little effect on reality.<br>
    They can ban/prohibit things, but people don’t have to comply, and seldom really do.<br>
    All that really happens is people go underground.

    They can’t stop anything, just make things more difficult.

    I look at most things from the practical side.<br>
    My camping gear will serve for bugging out, power outages, and severe weather. Worst case scenario, I can build and stock a cabin with the same gear and start over.<br>
    Sure someone could take it forcibly, but lighting could also destroy my house, which is more likely?

    Having spent weeks without power during winter, I tend to plan for such. Having dealt with floods, I plan accordingly. Having been unemployed because of an injury, I plan accordingly.

    Conventional wisdom has its points. For example, never get involved in a land war in Russia. The French and Germans both failed to learn this pearl of conventional wisdom.

    Being unconventional has its place, but one must still be careful.<br>
    I look at the convention and see if it has merit and go from there.

    Still, what you say about bugging out with a trailer at a moment of danger only applies to a rural area with very little traffic; it doesn’t apply at all to the city of normal size that I referred to. If the trailer guys take off from a city, there will be horrible gridlock within 45 minutes and those hundreds of trailers, not one or two, plus cars and trucks will be sitting on the pavement until people run out of peanut butter sandwiches and find that they literally have to abandon their beautifully stocked vehicles and go on foot. That’s when they discover that their massive bug out bags are impossible to lug more than a hundred yards; and they have to pitch them too. That precisely is what I said doesn’t work; and you yourself have seen it many times in the news. It’s not bugging out from a rural location that we’re generally talking about but fleeing from a city. Unless you fled the city a day at least before the catastrophe, you need to go very light or stay put. Short of a nuclear blast or such, most city dwellers will benefit from staying put and making do with what is there. If their house is stocked with common sense and they communicate with their neighbors, things will generally work out.

    #20514
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    <div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>Anselm wrote:</div>Unless you fled the city a day at least before the catastrophe, you need to go very light or stay put. Short of a nuclear blast or such, most city dwellers will benefit from staying put and making do with what is there.

    It is pretty well understood by everyone including the government that there is only 3 days of food in the cities and probably the same in dense rural areas. So staying put for most folks is not going to happen. “things will generally work out.” is fantasy.

    #20517
    Profile photo of libbylindy
    libbylindy
    Survivalist
    member4

    I must agree with 74 on this one. “Things generally working out”, generally doesn’t. Even for someone very, very prepared, there is probably a greater chance that you will be at risk than be safe. Of course, if you are talking about a small, local incident, you may be right. However, for a major event that will put things in chaos for an extended period of time, everyone is at risk. The better prepared you are, the better; however, even then the crazies around you will be a threat. If it amounted to no one other than yourself, then there is a bigger chance of safety and survival. The chance to have no one around you will exist only is a very rural location. If I had to choose, I would choose fewer people around me.
    I have thought a lot about this subject and from what I read here, it appears the urbanites are most comfortable staying where they are, and the rural people are most comfortable in their situation. We always tend to go to the most familiar. Therefore, it is hard to come to a consensus here.

    #20518
    Profile photo of Anselm
    Anselm
    Survivalist
    member6

    <div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>74 wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>Anselm wrote:</div>Unless you fled the city a day at least before the catastrophe, you need to go very light or stay put. Short of a nuclear blast or such, most city dwellers will benefit from staying put and making do with what is there.

    It is pretty well understood by everyone including the government that there is only 3 days of food in the cities and probably the same in dense rural areas. So staying put for most folks is not going to happen. “things will generally work out.” is fantasy.

    Not fantasy but experience. Everyone I know has food for plenty more than 3 days, as well as sources of replenishment. As I posted earlier, many grow much of their own.
    What is fantasy is TEOTWAWKI.

    #20525
    Profile photo of Anselm
    Anselm
    Survivalist
    member6

    <div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>libbylindy wrote:</div>I must agree with 74 on this one. “Things generally working out”, generally doesn’t. Even for someone very, very prepared, there is probably a greater chance that you will be at risk than be safe. Of course, if you are talking about a small, local incident, you may be right. However, for a major event that will put things in chaos for an extended period of time, everyone is at risk. The better prepared you are, the better; however, even then the crazies around you will be a threat. If it amounted to no one other than yourself, then there is a bigger chance of safety and survival. The chance to have no one around you will exist only is a very rural location. If I had to choose, I would choose fewer people around me.<br>
    I have thought a lot about this subject and from what I read here, it appears the urbanites are most comfortable staying where they are, and the rural people are most comfortable in their situation. We always tend to go to the most familiar. Therefore, it is hard to come to a consensus here.

    True enough, but note that the likely event is a local one, not national. The TEOTWAWKI most preppers seem hell-bent on is not a religious dogma. Usually, what we have is a flood or earthquake or hurricane in one relatively small area. Have you asked yourself why people insist on it being TEOTWAWKI? Statistically, and within your own life experience and mine, it is the least likely situation. So why prepare for the least likely?

    #20528
    Profile photo of libbylindy
    libbylindy
    Survivalist
    member4

    It goes this way, Anselm. People, even preppers, are caught up in the normalcy bias. If it hasn’t happened in their lifetime or in their country, then it is discounted as unlikely or impossible nearly, to happen. Ask Selco. Had the war that he was caught in been anticipated? He has mentioned time and again how he and others around him were sure that it wasn’t that bad; that it would end soon; that it wasn’t what they had heard via the grapevine, wanting to believe the media’s take on it. No, they waited because they were not convinced that it was as bad as it was. It hadn’t happened before. How could it happen now? So you wait, expecting things to improve. As you wait, your chances of escape grow smaller and smaller till finally you are caught in the snare. Now it is too late. These innocent people were caught up in the normalcy bias.
    Things DO happen. Even things that are terrible and long lasting. Now ask Selco how he feels about it. Will he be more prepared for something that could last longer or be more terrible? Will he be quicker to look at the reality or take the chance that it is going to be bad? I am very sure that if you go through that and survive, you will have a more realistic attitude toward it.

    Here is another thing to think about. Would you rather be prepared for a major, long lasting crisis but it only turns out to be small, insignificant or short lived; or would you rather prepare for a minor event that is short lived – perhaps just a few days or weeks at the most – but have it be that unbelievable TEOTWAWKI or something equivalent happen? If I was going to be comfortable, I would rather plan big and not need it all, than to plan small and have to say “OOPS!, who would have believed that one?”

    If I prepare for the big one, then I am prepared for anything. If I prepare for the small one, then I am not prepared for anything larger than my current preparations. Then I am up a creek without a paddle if something comes along that I didn’t anticipate happening – something that was unlikely.

    We are talking about our life and the lives of our family. It is not something to gamble with.

    #20590
    Profile photo of Anselm
    Anselm
    Survivalist
    member6

    Very good point, Libbylindy. But look at the following. The TEOTWAWKI thing is Y2K all over again. It was a tremendous fraud that kept people terrified — what Government always wants so as to control us — and that gave some a sizeable amount of money which they obtained from the terrified.

    My own preparations for Y2K consisted in the purchase of a hoe at a thrift store and of assorted seeds from a store that was going out of business — a total of $7.50. Next, I told a Chinese friend in Taipei and another in Shanghai that I would be calling them an hour into the D-Day (they would enter it seven hours ahead of us), so I needed them to be available at the phone.

    At the appointed time, I called my friends in quick succession. They assured me that all was well. And that was the end of it.

    In my vicinity, one man had bought ten thousand Q-tips (which he is still stuck with today); one woman, a twenty-year supply of toilet paper. People had maxed out their credit cards buying stuff they would never need. I can’t do that. I don’t have that kind of money. I also don’t have that lack of sense.

    I used the seeds and the hoe to learn to grow food. I purposely did it the hard way. I actually tore through the two-foot “mattress” of grass roots by hand, without a rototiller. I wanted to see if I could do African-style traditional horticulture. I found that it was backbreaking, but I could. Mildew destroyed my first crop of vine plants — cucumbers, peas and assorted beans — and the cabbage butterflies, i.e., their larvae, wrecked my cabbage and broccoli; the cutworm and grasshoppers hurt other plants. But I learned. The second year, I stopped the mildew with Epsom salts and murdered any white butterfly that came near. The third, fourth and fifth years things went more or less all right. I went on to grow flowers as well and learned much from that. To my surprise, squirrels and rabbits did not bother my little crops.

    The collective memory of my family spans about two hundred years. That includes a number of wars and revolutions in several countries. I myself have inadvertently walked into two wars — these things often take common people by surprise — and I have been through two horrible floods, several typhoons and several earthquakes. So it isn’t as if I was born yesterday. Much as I value Selco’s experience, I don’t see why my own needs to be held in contempt.

    Please note that I have reached a rather advanced age and am still more or less in one piece; better, in fact, than neighbors much younger who are on disability. And I am not a gambler. I have long kept on hand what I may need for a protracted tragedy. I am simply not alarmist and not a fanatic.

    Any soldier can tell you that a road is a Linear Danger Zone (LDZ). In a catastrophe, it’s the last place you want to be. With the American propensity for “a car per person”, gridlock is obligatory. So is running out of gas because of it. If you study Katrina, you will see that many such were forced by the irate motorists around them to abandon their vehicles and go on foot — their dead cars were shoved off the road. That was when they found that their famous BOB’s were too heavy to carry. That’s the situation that I’m urging people to avoid.

    Once the thing hits, the worst thing you can do is take off. Your best bet is to stay put. If that really is impossible because you’re going to be killed, then you had best leave with only the barest minimum that you can carry on your body. Yes, start out in your car, but know that within a few miles you will have to abandon it and proceed on foot. So don’t load your car heavily with all sorts of silly stuff. My own load would be between five pounds and ten; I can’t handle more; I’m being realistic.

    Your key to survival is not so much an enormous stockpile as your ability to adapt.

    Americans are notorious for being alienated from reality, for believing things that are not true and that they get all riled up about, e.g., concealed carry; the issue is whether people may have guns; how they carry them is utterly irrelevant; yet people spend their time arguing about the non-issue. We need to stay focused on reality, so the first step should be to throw out the TV; it will consistently warp your perceptions and have you concerned about what doesn’t exist.

    At this moment, the one thing that would cause national catastrophe is World War III. Unfortunately, it is a real possibility because the U.S. Government is pushing with all its might to achieve it. But, if it does, there will be no place to go anyway, so why go? No matter where radiation gets us, we shall die, so why not die at home?

    And, to take things closer to the core, why this morbid fear of death?

    And are people sure that survival in the country, if somehow feasible, will satisfy them? Throughout millennia, rural people have moved to the city because life there is so much better. Life in the countryside is a miserable existence. Life is not just about eating and defecating, which appears to be the goal of a lot of “survivalists” and “preppers”. I am not knocking it if that’s what you want, but is it really what you want?

    Here in my area, we have enough Jewish musicians to staff at least a couple of chamber music ensembles and maybe even a small orchestra. We have enough Mexican musicians to set up at least a half dozen mariachi bands. We have excellent choirs and soloist singers. We have good actors and painters and what have you. We have technicians in all medical fields and in all the mechanical arts. And many good people who are armed and know how to fight. I fail to see it as unreasonable that we will not survive an ordinary catastrophe and have a much higher quality of life than people who live like a rat in the woods.

    The choice is yours. I respect your right to choose differently from me. I only suggest to you that you make your choice because it really is yours, not because it is someone else’s idea of what is good for you.

    My sincere best wishes for whatever you do.

    #20594
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    Anselm:

    At this moment, the one thing that would cause national catastrophe is World War III. Unfortunately, it is a real possibility because the U.S. Government is pushing with all its might to achieve it. But, if it does, there will be no place to go anyway, so why go? No matter where radiation gets us, we shall die, so why not die at home?

    Perhaps it’s just me and my American delusions, but I hardly see WWIII as the possibility some do.
    But I do see an attack on the infrastructure as a reality. Be it domestic or foreign terrorists, it’s the worst thing that could be done short of all out war, which no one wants. Not the Russians, the Chinese, or the North Koreans.
    Why? Because everybody loses with the World War.

    However a low tech attack on the grid, done simultaneously across the nation would shut everything down and for longer than many might believe. Sure some “critical” services would go on thanks to personal generators and such, but hardly for the time frame needed to make the repairs.

    Planning for your personal worst, not some imagined worst, is the best plan.
    Be it long term unemployment, fire or another catastrophe, reality is the best thing to work with and look at.
    And with proper planning, you are set up for the unusual happenings most of the time.

    We may not agree all the time, I dare say that it’s more the philosophy/reasoning that we disagree with rather than the practices.

    #20596
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Whirlibird, I have some agreement with you, WWIII will not be a nuclear war because everyone loses so it will not happen. Now will one of the big three try something to take the grid down in a way that it will not point to them, YES!

    This will be blamed on Al Qaeda or a small country like Iran or North Korea or another group that no one cares about. The way the grid gets taken down will be given to one of these group from Russia or China. That is what I think.

    So it will not be a WWIII but it will be bad.

    #20597
    Profile photo of Anselm
    Anselm
    Survivalist
    member6

    Whirlibird, I don’t see as likely that an attack on the grid will be simultaneous over the whole nation. For something like that to happen, it would most likely be the Government itself that would do it. I don’t think that any private group of Americans, let alone foreign commandos can pull off anything of that scope. I don’t dispute that a local attack, or four or five of them, can take place; and the weight of the population affected would then be “carried” by the resources of the surrounding area.

    As to World War III, this is the closest we have been to it within my lifetime. I do see it as a possibility. The U.S. is hell-bent on owning the planet’s resources and, for example, is shooting its way all over Africa to get them. Where the Chinese go to Africa to buy minerals and agricultural land, the U.S. just BANGS its way in. Think of Mali last year. The French were retaking their old colony, and the U.S. jumped on the bandwagon — I still don’t know with what ridiculous pretext. It made me sick to see it; I had commercial dealings with Mali in the 1970’s, and it was a wretchedly poor country; the people did not have the means to develop their own mineral riches. What was done was a crime. I was amazed that the Malian army put up the fight that it did — brave soldiers. At present, only Russia, China and Iran still have vast mineral and other wealth and the means to resist being raped. So the U.S. will do what it takes to break them and achieve world control. It’s hard to believe that Putin and Lavrov are still doing their utmost to use diplomacy to defuse the situation but, as the American aggression gets more and more blatant, I doubt that they can hold back. Can you imagine the U.S. holding back if the Russians were setting up missile bases in Canada and Mexico and sponsoring an armed uprising of Quebec against the Ottawa government? It will only be by a miracle that war will be averted. Does God have any reason to procure one?

    On a lighter note, and getting back to specific urban and rural survival, have you seen the British 1984 movie “Threads”? I think it gives a pretty accurate view of what will happen in nuclear war. The movie is on YouTube. You can pick up many tips: don’t try to reach your hideout in the country, for cops will block the way; politicians will be safely underground, hoarding and enjoying all available food; it will not be the right time to get married, much less to father a child; people will quarrel over deck chairs right up to the instant the Titanic sinks …

    #20599
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    True enough, but note that the likely event is a local one, not national. The TEOTWAWKI most preppers seem hell-bent on is not a religious dogma. Usually, what we have is a flood or earthquake or hurricane in one relatively small area. Have you asked yourself why people insist on it being TEOTWAWKI? Statistically, and within your own life experience and mine, it is the least likely situation. So why prepare for the least likely?

    At this moment, the one thing that would cause national catastrophe is World War III Unfortunately, it is a real possibility because the U.S. Government is pushing with all its might to achieve it. But, if it does, there will be no place to go anyway, so why go? No matter where radiation gets us, we shall die, so why not die at home? ; Anselm:

    Anselm,
    You’re pretty much all over the map.

    “The choice is yours. I respect your right to choose differently from me. I only suggest to you that you make your choice because it really is yours, not because it is someone else’s idea of what is good for you” Anselm

    Lets just leave it at that.

    #20602
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    Taking down the ‘grid isn’t as hard as many would believe.

    A hundred committed saboteurs with small caliber rifles and nondescript cars would make a mess of the world.
    How hard would it be to come up with 100 people with a mad on against the US?

    Look at it this way, 3am eastern time comes.
    The cars are ready and sitting under a power pole transformer each.
    At the same time they punch 2 holes in the transformers, one high, one low and drive off.
    5-10 minutes later the same thing happens. Within an hour, that’s 600 transformers.
    With prior planning starting in the right places, one could easily cut off great sections of the US and keep slicing off chunks every few minutes.

    By 8am (EST), when everyone wakes and finds the power off over most of the country, that’s 3000+ transformers.
    And that’s just one night.

    There aren’t that many replacements out there to get everything running again.

    Now look at the distribution stations, they hit these at the same time as they pass by, even more are effected.

    Because of the time frame, the fact that it would take a while for the transformers to drain and fail, the shooters would easily get away without notice most places.

    How would people react to this? Waking up and finding the power gone.
    Especially across the country.
    Time it right, during a cold snap or heat wave, the problem quickly becomes compounded.

    WWIII isn’t needed, a country would tear itself apart on it’s own at that point.

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