July 23, 2014 at 4:32 pm #19851
Robin, you maybe in a good area where it is the boonies and not a farm. The cities will be war zones.July 23, 2014 at 4:39 pm #19852
“Please keep your minds & eyes open and put your self’s in the government’s position, think like them, what would they do in a SHTF for there future food supplies.”
They already control the supply of food through a little boondoggle called “Big Ag”. I’d advise staying away from those areas of government controlled farming. Plenty of more ‘marginal’ areas that won’t interest them at all, as the pay-off is too little.
Head for the hills people.
MaineJuly 23, 2014 at 5:20 pm #19858
Many years ago, I read a “science fiction” story Alas, Babylon : ( sorry–can’t work my underlining to show it’s a book). Anyone else familiar? Back in the atomic-bomb days, it was a very possible scenario. Now, it’s more prophetic of SHTF. Do find a copy. It’s exactly what we’re discussing here, + entertaining. Get more toilet tissue.July 23, 2014 at 5:30 pm #19862
My .02 cents.
Folks around here call city dwellers flatlanders or citydiots. My parents were farmers and moved to the city for better job opportunities. They might be able to talk the talk with rural folk but it’s quite apparent that I know nothing about rural living and can be spotted as not belonging almost instantly. The same goes for rural folk coming into the city and not knowing the nuances of city life. I would be quite wary to wander into a rural area looking for help and for those folks who don’t know cities wandering into them with out knowing which neighborhoods are safe would be a daunting prospect.
I say go with what you know initially but be prepared to adapt. People are unpredictable so you have to use your best judgement when the time comes. I can’t predict how people will work together during a SHTF or a regional disaster. It all depends on what is the cause and the resources available. I found the book One Second After to be a very well written fictional story of what life would be like for a small town with adjacent rural areas after an EMP attack. The story had a reluctant hero who helped save the town from disaster but not without serious hardship and many hard choices along the way. Lot’s of people died, people were turned away, there was starvation and rationing. It was well written and grim but very interesting.
I hope to live a very uninteresting life. Fingers crossed.July 23, 2014 at 5:31 pm #19863
Alas, Babylon is a great book, and is well worth reading. Lots of practical food for thought in it.July 23, 2014 at 5:33 pm #19865
One Second After is a great book. It scared the crap out of me, but in a positive learning kind of way.July 23, 2014 at 5:38 pm #19869
Yes I liked the One Second After too! Great info in that book.July 23, 2014 at 6:40 pm #19876
There is no question for me in this scenario. I will always take the least populated. The problem is not that bad things happen. It is that, in our present society, there are the vast majority of the people alive that no longer have any character.
What would happen today if we entered the very same great depression that they had a few decades ago in this country? Then the people lived on next to nothing, clothes were worn and threadbare, shelter scarce in many situations. They still acted like sane, responsible people.
Today, if we were in the very same situation, there would be riots, people taking what wasn’t theirs, people killing to get what they didn’t put away for, people acting like mad pit bulls in a fighting ring. That is because they were never taught to be responsible and think in a sane way. They never developed any character. Today, many would lose their lives.
So I will take the path that leads to fewer of these crazies, thank you. I have been responsible with the resources that I have available to me. I have thought about the future and planned for it. What is impossible would be for everyone around me to expect me to carry them through the crisis. I can save myself. I can save my family. I cannot save the community or the world. End of story.July 23, 2014 at 6:52 pm #19880
So much depends on which Sit-X were to occur, I honestly don’t think there is a THIS IS BEST with all the factors to take into consideration.
My current location is on the edge of a city, I have water catchment inplace we use for the garden a couple of streams and even 3 lakes within 15-20minutes walk and then there is the local canal so thats water plus fishing.
We grow some of our own food, have room and plans to expand, we have birds, rabbits and squirrels to hunt woods, hedgerows and wasteland to forage……….. kinda the best of both worlds depending on what should happen.
If at first you don't succeed, excessive force is usually the answer.July 23, 2014 at 7:00 pm #19883
I agree with you that the less people around you the better. Folks rioted during the great depression as well. All in all people are not pleasant and down right dangerous when hungry.July 23, 2014 at 7:01 pm #19884
I see lots of very interesting comments, but things that have always struck me are the following:
When does a possible bug in turn into a bug out scenario.
How do I know
What additional dangers did I create for myself by waiting to leave (if I do)
If I do bug out, how far is far enough off the grid
How permanent of a camp should I consider and when does the concept of bugging out turn into simply bugging in someplace else
It is a very tough decision on whether to just take off or try and hold the fort down. I am more of a “get the heck out of dodge” kinda guy, but my fellow cohort at work does make some interesting points. He came from a large city and talks about all sorts of resources that are available in a city if you know how/where to look. These sorts of comments make me wonder and debate on a continued basis. All I really know is that I am MUCH more comforable in the woods than a city. If I had the choice, I would definitely pick the foothills of a mountain to live on and would build myself a complete camp to relocate my family to. At least I would be far enough off the beaten path to keep looters from finding me nearly as easy.
I think you need to have both options available with plans for both types of scenarios. Of course, I would be hosed in the urban setting……
http://ageofdecadence.comJuly 23, 2014 at 7:13 pm #19887
Some folks say they will remain in the city because that is where law and order will last the longest.
Police/1st responders are human. When SHTF they will take care of their families.
I really live in the boonies. It is 19 miles to the nearest town (approx. 11k people) but I have a lake and back up to a river. Deer, hogs, armadillos, fresh water oysters, edible plants etc are all around me.
When Wal-Mart runs out of food in the city you are screwed!
Agree, and I have seen that, law and police are there yes, but only to the certain point, after that point they are just folks like all other.
In some cases they (police) instantly become well armed and trained gang.July 23, 2014 at 9:05 pm #19898
Another plus for rural areas is that people tend to know each other, and people generally know who the trouble makers and crazies are. It is hard to be anonymous in a rural or small town setting. Urban/suburban areas not so much. A couple years ago one of my brothers passed away. He had lived in his house in what I’d term a close-in suburb for several years. I went to his immediate neighbors to leave my contact info and to ask them to watch over the house until things were settled. None of them even knew he had died. He had died at home after going into a diabetic coma which meant somehow the neighbors all missed seeing the police, ambulance etc. In the months following my purchase of my present home in a rural area, most of the people in the hamlet stopped by to say hello and welcome to the neighborhood. No anonymity possible here.July 23, 2014 at 9:18 pm #19901
Amen to both you MountainBiker and Selco.
RobinJuly 23, 2014 at 11:08 pm #19922
Nice to hear from you Selco. Thanks everyone for thoughts and comments.
Most likely, SHTF will be a very unfamiliar experience for everyone no matter where they live.
There is no one size fits all suburbia. Some lots can be an acre or even more. I was visiting a friend in Rockville, Maryland a couple weeks ago. Some really wealthy neighborhoods nearby have properties of multi acres with a 10,000 sq ft mansion in the middle of it. Custom made for substantial re arrangement of land sue and social reorganization to take care of more needs onsite – as long as they have the tools, seeds, water and orgnanization and vision to be thinking and working towards making these changes before the need arrives.
I also visited the poor neighborhood of Clifton in NE Baltimore. There are many many vacant lots, hundreds of row houses bulldozed. The city has a program of “adopt a lot” and here and there are very productive [under the circumstances] community gardens. Still, the prospects there are not attractive for many 1000s of lower income residents.
I also spent some time in densely habitated Brooklyn and Manhattan. I see no future there at all if anything remotely like SHTF comes into being.
What makes a lot of sense is a kind of suburbia that is in a smaller town, with enough space for large gardens. Farmland within a few miles for row crops like grains and beans. Parks can be transformed into gardens. After a few years of reduced toxics, golf courses, too. School grounds. Look around a smaller town or many [but not all] suburban neighborhoods, there is a remarkable amount of space to grow food – not just zukes and carrots but also places for vines, brambles, fruit and nut trees. Trellises, arbors, pergolas – elevated food production in many unlikely places.
Rain barrels were mentioned earlier. Good to think about larger tanks in the 1000s of gallons range. Plus the low tech water filters to make that water drinkable. Passive solar design – attached green houses can help heat a home and expand the growing season. Certainly one’s climate will affect food, energy and water produced on site.
As Selco and others mention, having a working relationship with neighbors is important. Some cities have neighborhood associations, Crime Watch groups, emergency preparedness initiatives like Mapping Your Neighborhood, various city programs to empower citizens to take intiative. Communities of faith have enormous potentials as do the scouts, PTA, Lions Club and any other community entity that exists to some how serve the community. These assets and more were not intended to be tools of permaculture or preparedness, but they can be used that way and in a growing number of places, they are.
Seems best strategy is to localize as much economics and culture as possible so people are not so dependent on the mainstream as the economy comes unglued or some other disruption happens. Creating and advocating models of what these alternatives can look like certainly exposes the model maker to “company” at a later time but I think that risk is worth it.
The more people who downsize their needs – less energy, more plant based diet, less car dependence, lower overhead lifestyle – the more people are able to take care of more needs closer to home, and ideally, be less desperate. The more people who see the benefits of downsizing and self producing and cooperating for mutual benefit and take action to make all that happen, the better for all involved.
Here are several fotos of what some of this can look like in a better than average suburban neighborhood.
These four fotos from a neighborhood bike tour – we have been doing tours all over Eugene for years so people can see and learn from others how to go more local and take care of more needs closer to home. These fotos within blocks of where I live. Many more fotos on my website – http://www.suburbanpermaculture.org
2890 – bike tour a couple blocks from me – a one time grassy front yard turned into an annual food forest – many kinds of edible/medicianl shrubs, vines, ground cover, no need to replant every year – these are annual plants
2902 – bike tour hears explanation of Neighborhood Watch and how neighbors working together is good for everyone,,,, simple concerns for property can expand and the need becomes more clear, to all kinds of other collaborations between neighbors
2932 – bike tour visits a front yard garden – great way to meet your neighbors, keep an eye on the street and grow food
2953 – bike tour – this neighbors explaining ways to store food, sharing what we know for a more resilient home and neighborhood
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