July 23, 2014 at 1:24 am #19782
For many reasons I would chose a Rural Survival scenario over an Urban setting any day. The number one reason being that there will not be as many people to contend with in a Rural area. Unfortunately when SHTF, rather than Patriots and preppers joining together for a common cause, they will likely be killing eachother. The ones living in rural areas will be batteling the ones trying to flea the Urban areas. Perhaps that guy trying to cross your property has a burried cache and he’s more than willing to pitch in. When SHTF the prepared must join together. A few people can win a battle, a few more can win a war.July 23, 2014 at 2:05 am #19797
Urdan vs rural, well it all depends on the SHTF. If it is a government take over or control of the people then the cities maybe better. Almost all history teaches us that Dictatorship type of governments have first taken over all farm land since that is were the food is grown. They really do not care about the cities, let them be war zones. But they will take the farms away from who ever is there and install there own people to control the food supply. This has happen in Russia, Cuba, North Korea, China and other countries that are Communist or Dictatorships.
So again it all depends on what this government has planned for the SHTF time. Oh and I know they have plans for the rural areas don’t you? They know that is were many of the hardcore right wing constitutional preppers are located.
The left depended free loaders that need help from the government almost all live in the cities in the north of the U. S. so the government will do whatever they can to help them stay alive and will take the farm food to them by force.
If you think otherwise you are dreaming.July 23, 2014 at 7:26 am #19808
Welcome here Permajan,
We here do not have suburban areas, as I understand what suburban areas are there.
I do not like really that, but key is to be prepared, as you said:
trading grass for garden and edible landscaping, rain water catchment, passive solar redesign, collaborations between neighbors.
I think most important thing to prepare with other folks, to have your group when SHTF.
Dreamerhps, glad to have you here.
Do not worry about what you gonna say to the friends when they show, you will realize at that time how important is to have priorities. It is you and your loved ones or them.
Or you can as Malgus mention try to check value of their skills.July 23, 2014 at 8:52 am #19812
I would like to be some where that looks like this for obvious reasons
Attachments:You must be logged in to view attached files.July 23, 2014 at 10:52 am #19817
74 – pretty but I like the Hakka better. Were/are some smart people.
Attachments:You must be logged in to view attached files.July 23, 2014 at 11:07 am #19821
<div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>bushrat wrote:</div>On other prepping websites I have heard so many people giving a variety of excuses why they can’t leave the city or the suburbs. They watch the news and understand the political crises we are in right now, they see how things are going along the border, and in the large cities and suburban areas, and they know the serious situation this nation is in financially. They know it will be tough, yet they would rather give their excuses for not moving than to leave the comfort of their job, and the nice home or apartment they have scored for themselves, and go somewhere where they will have the opportunity to find small town or farm and raise a garden, store up food and water, and get ready for what they have already agreed they see coming down the road.
Bushrat I so agree. I mayself had to face this in myself. The huge change was very hard, but well worth it. The final push to make a move was thinking, ‘Well,…if you really, truly believe this self…your intuition tells you it is the thing to do…why aren’t you doing this? Are you going to follow Noah’s example and have faith in your beliefs, or ‘build the ark…oh well I’ll do that later?’ I decided to follow where whomever runs the world was quite obviously leading me.July 23, 2014 at 12:59 pm #19832
Selco, you might want to talk to Fernando “Ferfal” Aguirre about this. He’s an Argentinian that cataloged the collapse of their economy online, and eventually organized his writings into a book of his observations. I’ve followed him for many, many years. He’s an expert on living in an urban/suburban setting during an economic upheaval, but not the total collapse which you experienced. (http://www.ferfal.blogspot.com/)
In his case, government still somewhat functions but gangs/crime are common and resources are scarce. As he put it: if you call the police they may refuse to come, but if you shoot someone in your yard they will come arrest you.
I recall his comments on rural settings is that there were many instances of roving gangs taking over homes and nobody knew the residents were in trouble. The gang would stay a while, consume all the resources, rape, and murder the residents. Another example, a friend of his is a farmer and squatters are constantly trying to setup shanty towns on his land. He consumes 1000 rounds of .22LR a month driving them off with warning shots. They can’t tell the difference between the .22LR and something bigger so hey move on. (Lesson here is “buy a bunch of .22LR while it’s cheap and available).
Above all, if you live in the country you must not have a road that runs up to your front door. You will be discovered and attacked. He suggests that you bulldoze the road as many miles away from your home as possible (where it branches off of the main road), and make it look like there was never a road. I have a friend in Australia (Queensland) with a large sugarcane farm and he has two D9 bulldozers to do this with. Most people don’t. So, the service road to your property is a real problem. It’s only safe if nobody knows your there, and that road is an invitation.
The best setting for Argentina’s situation seems to be a suburban neighborhood. Not perfect, as every one of his neighbors over the years has suffered a break-in, robbery, and rapes, but he attributes this to not being careful. Bandits don’t assault your house, he says. They watch your habits for a few days, then catch you when you take out your trash or come home from work (if you have a job). He jokes that Americans often think the enemy comes over the hill waving flags and beating drums and you can do “one shot, one kill” with them. In reality, it’s more covert, and your best bet is having careful habits, and having neighbors who will call the police when they see you’re in trouble. His experience is that the urban areas is what people here have said, too many rats in a box; the countryside requires too much manpower to secure; and the suburban isn’t perfect, but is the best of the three.
If you want to compare notes, you can find him here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrSf5GLpvQSpIpS5-zHc7LgJuly 23, 2014 at 1:18 pm #19834
Great discussion. Most here are in agreement that the cities will have it tougher than rural areas. Freedom, I know you don’t see it the same way but the degree to which rural America is armed will make it very difficult for the govt.to control if things fall apart.
For those who see suburbia as being viable, while it is certainly a better place to be than in the cities, the population density is just too high. The suburbs for most big cities just sprawl outward seemingly forever. Permaculture was very popular where I used to live, and it is a very good thing, but in the end how much food can you possibly grow relative to the area’s population? That said, I agree with the sentiment that staying put in suburbia is likely way better than being a refugee.
Rural is best I think, and I acknowledge that pre-SHTF it could be very tough to make a living and you often don’t have much in the way of conveniences and services. If you really do believe that things are going to fall apart some day however, thinking you are going to relocate to a rural area just in time could prove to be a very dangerous gamble. The biggest problems that I think most rural dwellers will face is security if your home is too isolated and what to do with the inevitable urban/suburban dwellers fleeing to the countryside. My present full time home was initially my bug out location. When looking for a place to buy, I did not want an isolated spot because of the security issue. I bought a place in what I refer to as a hamlet in a small valley with very limited road access. The roads could be easily blocked off by dropping a few trees but even if we could organize the entire hamlet for mutual defense, anyone coming over the mountains through the forest could be tough to detect. Being able to block the roads however would be of great help in deterring most urban refugees.
On the matter of refugees, My nature is to want to help people and I know I would have a hard time turning away friends who may come looking for refuge. My extended family all live in suburban areas and I’ve long been a source of amusement to them for my prepping ways but I can’t see how I could ever turn any of them away. Who knows, Maybe the hamlet would benefit in handling the security detail if we all took in friends and family seeking refuge. As for refugees that are strangers, I can envision screening them for needed skills, and sending the rest on their way.July 23, 2014 at 1:23 pm #19835
A collapse here will not be the same as Argentina, first Argentina has been a Socialist government for a longer time, second not everyone has a gun there, third is it was not a total collapse. I do think there is something to learn from it. It does give you an idea of how bad it will get here. I do think that there will not be many safe places here including the rural areas.
Argentina’s collapse didn’t take all the banks, financial institutions, government down, in the U. S. the collapse will make the Argentina’s collapse look like a baby. The U. S. collapse will collapse many other countries world wide, and the U. S. Dollar may not survive the collapse. Argentina’s money has survived.
I do believe that the rural areas biggest enemy is the government. The government will take over many of the farmland in a collapse.
I also agree that the .22 LR is a great weapon because 99% of the time you are trying to drive away with warning shots and the .22 LR is still the cheapest ammo for that. Keep the larger calibers for when they do not take the warning. Then use the larger calibers to shoot to kill.July 23, 2014 at 1:33 pm #19837
If things get violent and in the US and I expect it will, suburban areas will be terrible. These people will have no food, no weapons and no security. Line of sight defensively is very short between houses and impossible to defend. Plus you could get killed from a fire fight a block away because nothing in the house will stop a bullet. Fires will spread and whole blocks will burn. It will be fight or flight. Every house will be examined for food by the hungry. Every house will need a at least a two man watch 24/7. That is 6 people just to maintain a watch and rest, not accomplishing anything else.July 23, 2014 at 1:36 pm #19838
OK Freedom please start a new thread on use of lethal force. gtgJuly 23, 2014 at 1:55 pm #19839
.In the debate of rural vs urban survival settings I am pro rural. This is my opinion and choice because I am most comfortable among nature and have all the natural resources we need. Although I have lived in a few very large cities while hubby was in the military, I felt claustrophobic, hated sitting in traffic and all the rudeness that many city dwellers have toward each other. Just the thought of an evacuation in a city like DC sends shivers up my spine.
Out here on the “farm” we grow our own produce and raise our own meat. Our orchard has grown over the years and serves us well. Our seeds are heirloom and are propagated yearly. We have abundant water sources, wild game and fish. Fortunately we have the acreage and the man/women power to sustain us. However it is not a Utopia by any means; it is hard work and long days. We train together often using different scenario. With all the above in our arsenal I am well aware of the waves of displaced folks that will/may head our way. There will be tough times turning people away and fighting to maintain our perimeter. It is what has to be done for the good of the group. There is nothing meaner than a grandma protecting her grandbabies.
Desperate people do desperate things when they have nothing. They will use a small child, a battered woman or the very old to get inside your gates. Taking someone in after an event could lead to the spread of disease or even a huge blow to your OPSEC. My main priority is the group that has been together 10 or more years and the generations to come. With that said you still have to have alternative plans with many options.July 23, 2014 at 2:40 pm #19841
It all depends on what type of collapse happens. If it is only a financial collapse then maybe rural areas will not get hit by the government but believe me the government has many plans for the rural takeover. All of history has shown that this happens, Even in the Communist countries like Cuba where they took over all the rural areas by force many farmers were killed and the food production was cut by 75% but the government did not care since they are only interested in feeding there troops and government people. The rest can die for food. They would give the minimum amount of food to the people to control them. The people then only though about were there next meal was coming from.
So it doesn’t matter how well armed the rural areas are, the government will try to take over the land. Hell they are trying to take over larger farms right now! So can you imagine when there is a collapse and the news media is only covering the cities war zone and not the rural war going on with the government.
Like I have said before rural farmland takeover is a government collapse plan. All of this doesn’t mean I think the cities are not going to be a war zone. But what I am telling all of you that history and what has been in the news about the government takeover of farmlands, rural areas, and cattle ranches has been happening now, so in a collapse it will happen. If you guys think the government is not as well armed as the rural America you got a problem, they have an open bank account to buy everything they need for a takeover.
The government knows that the only way to keep control of there own troops is to make sure the food supplies for them keeps coming so even if they have to kill many of the farmers I guaranty the military has there plans to farm the land for there purpose which is to feed there troops.
Not all rural areas will get hit by the government but we do not have or know there plans.
So the reason I am telling everyone here is to prepare for what will come.
I also believe that the cities will be left to burn them self’s off and the government will not care.
I want everyone to understand that the government knows that who controls food also controls power!July 23, 2014 at 4:08 pm #19847
I also wanted to add that just about every single survival forum or blog has preppers talking about how good it is to be in a rural area or farmland were you can grow your food and be away from the cities, well if the NSA is reading and recording everything that is posted online then do you think the government hasn’t started a study on what needs to be done in a SHTF to take over the rural/farmland areas? Don’t you think they already know how much storage of food some of these rural preppers have?
Open your eyes, I know that if I worked in the government I would be planning many options for the takeover of all the rural areas. You need to put your self’s in the government’s shoes, think like them. Think about what you would do if you where the government.
Please keep your minds & eyes open and put your self’s in the government’s position, think like them, what would they do in a SHTF for there future food supplies.July 23, 2014 at 4:24 pm #19848
Some folks say they will remain in the city because that is where law and order will last the longest.
Police/1st responders are human. When SHTF they will take care of their families.
I really live in the boonies. It is 19 miles to the nearest town (approx. 11k people) but I have a lake and back up to a river. Deer, hogs, armadillos, fresh water oysters, edible plants etc are all around me.
When Wal-Mart runs out of food in the city you are screwed!
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