Viewing 14 posts - 16 through 29 (of 29 total)
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  • #48561
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    Training trumps human nature.
    Cops and firefighters run into burning buildings, against human nature.
    Why? Training.

    NO training doesn’t trump every issue, but training makes up for gaps in experience.

    I can think of more than one situation where my training both made up for the lack of experience but also went against human nature. One example is where my ‘nature’ told me to hit the brakes, but my training told me to hit the gas. Had I held with “nature”, I’d have been pancaked between a semi and a bridge.

    #48564
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Without delving into the behavioral side of training. Familiarity with your gear particularly a firearm could make all the difference between life and death. Just not having the muscle memory of taking the safety off could be the end of the line. I’ve seen it happen to many times to count just shooting clay birds.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by Profile photo of 74 74.
    #48566
    Tolik
    Tolik
    Survivalist
    member10

    GS ,
    Dude WTF , people cant post here without attack anymore ?????? My point that seems to be lost , is very simply that even heavily trained people can fail to do what they need to do , when the SHTF for real , their first time out . When my friend said that he couldnt get enough ammo , he was referring to performing the way he needed to , that he was no longer affected by the situation . I also stand on my point that most people have a life , and are not going to , or cant spend the time playing tactical tommy . Sure , they know how to shoot their own firearms , and may even be fantastic with them …………on the range or hunting …………but people killing people , against a thinking opponent is a different matter , they may choke . They may fail to do what they need to do …….it can and will happen . Why do you think criminals get away with what they do ? because the person they went after , didnt do what they needed to do , like you said , things happen fast . Dont bother with training of any kind ? when did I say that ? I didnt . I also stand on my point that trained or not , until the real thing goes down , you have no idea how you will actually react as a person , vs. the way your supposed to react . A lot of dead people also prove my point . Happens to soldiers , cops ……………..and it may happen to us . In the moment that counts , your nature may make you hesitate , or make the wrong choice , leading to a bad result . Unless a person is an absolute total sociopath , that danger exists …….

    #48567
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    This is actually a great discussion because it contrasts learned behaviors versus observation of actual behavior. I can tell you’ if you are constantly repeating the same actions it can get you hurt just as easily as having no training under certain changes in conditions. When you are thinking about what you are doing because you’re not certain of your action versus acting like a robot, you’re more likely to make conscious decisions.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by Profile photo of 74 74.
    #48569
    Profile photo of Brulen
    Brulen
    Survivalist
    member9

    I don’t know Tolik. I’m not an absolute total sociopath but I’m pretty paranoid. When it comes down to it I’ve often been accused of not having sympathy. More training might give me faster reflexes. It would be beneficial in that regard. I think it’s human issues that make people hesitate. People though can be so damn deceptive. My motto in that regard is … Never trust a psychopath. He will use those human feelings against you. Practical advise possibly. Don’t buy a gun with a safety and keep the chamber loaded.
    I read a book on how to be a bodyguard sometime back. This discussion sort of brings it back to mind. The title escapes me at the moment but a mental refresher would be nice. Or maybe the book was about staying alive in a job that can make you real dead very quickly if your intelligence and physical skills are deficient.

    * Just 2 Seconds by Gavin de Becker

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by Profile photo of Brulen Brulen.
    #48570
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    “when you are faced with a man who wants to kill you, you are going to have to probably kill him in order to survive.

    I hope that, in this moment, you will not care for philosophy, humanity or ethics, and that you just going do what you have to do, and survive.” Selco

    These two paragraphs sum it up for me. Recognize that you have arrived at the moment where there can be no more deliberation. I hope it never comes to that time.

    #48572
    Tolik
    Tolik
    Survivalist
    member10

    This is actually a great discussion because it contrasts learned behaviors versus observation of actual behavior. I can tell you’ if you are constantly repeating the same actions it can get you hurt just as easily as having no training under certain changes in conditions. When you are thinking about what you are doing because you’re not certain of your action versus acting like a robot, you’re more likely to make conscious decisions.

    Exactly ! cops have to make that choice , and sometimes they dont make the right one , so either they or an innocent gets killed .

    #48573
    Tolik
    Tolik
    Survivalist
    member10

    “when you are faced with a man who wants to kill you, you are going to have to probably kill him in order to survive.

    I hope that, in this moment, you will not care for philosophy, humanity or ethics, and that you just going do what you have to do, and survive.” Selco

    These two paragraphs sum it up for me. Recognize that you have arrived at the moment where there can be no more deliberation. I hope it never comes to that time.

    Very true , sadly , it depends on the persons nature , there are a lot of people that lack a strong survival instinct , and they are preyed upon , but at the same time , depending on the situation , its a judgement call , your nature and humanity will have to make the call . Depending on the situation , a good cop will give the other person every opportunity to stand down , the bad cop will just unload on them , without giving a crap . Both are trained , but its their nature that makes the call , Every situation will be different , and not all will be as clear cut as a him or you , like you mentioned , people can be deceptive . Thats why I like animals more than people lol …….what you see is what you get , no hidden agenda lol .

    #48575
    Profile photo of Brulen
    Brulen
    Survivalist
    member9

    Wow. Powerful article. Part of the reality of a SHTF scenario such as Selco experienced is that it is ongoing rather than being a singular event where the recovery begins as soon as whatever it was occurred. Part is that nobody is coming to the rescue to restore order such as occurs with singular events. The ethnic/racial/religious diversity that so many celebrate as the ideal today will come to haunt them in a breakdown of order such as Selco experienced. That diversity makes it is all the easier to see those not exactly like you as “other”.

    So who hasn’t been watching Germany and France. Getting back to the source of the violence. The USA is going to get worse, much worse. Everyone knows it except those pollyannas who live in liberal denial obamaville. Essentially its ….. Islam out or America dead. Our crony politicians have done a Merkel and adopted left wing communist policies that will bring more murders bombings kidnappings and gangs to the US. Back in ww2 when the US firebombed Tokyo and nuked Hiroshima I don’t think we possessed human feelings for them. And now suddenly we have to have compassion For everyone except ourselves. This makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. This isn’t genocide it’s the survival of freedom. When Trump is elected its going to become a 2 front war, libs and Islamics fighting on the same side …. inside the US.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by Profile photo of Brulen Brulen.
    #48581
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    “when you are faced with a man who wants to kill you, you are going to have to probably kill him in order to survive.

    I hope that, in this moment, you will not care for philosophy, humanity or ethics, and that you just going do what you have to do, and survive.” Selco

    These two paragraphs sum it up for me. Recognize that you have arrived at the moment where there can be no more deliberation. I hope it never comes to that time.

    Very true , sadly , it depends on the persons nature , there are a lot of people that lack a strong survival instinct , and they are preyed upon , but at the same time , depending on the situation , its a judgement call , your nature and humanity will have to make the call . Depending on the situation , a good cop will give the other person every opportunity to stand down , the bad cop will just unload on them , without giving a crap . Both are trained , but its their nature that makes the call , Every situation will be different , and not all will be as clear cut as a him or you , like you mentioned , people can be deceptive . Thats why I like animals more than people lol …….what you see is what you get , no hidden agenda lol .

    The good cop will and should react to someone trying to kill them the same way we should, just as you say the bad cop will. Just unloading on them.

    Hesitation gets you killed. You, me, Clancy on the beat. Anyone.

    Bad guy might be my kids teacher last week, this week he’s pulling a knife on me.
    I hesitate because he’s a nice guy when he’s on his meds, I may not make it home to see my kids again.

    I don’t care who or what you are.
    You attack or threaten me or mine, and I will “unload” on you. Be it with a firearm, a wilted carrot or my bare hands.

    After the attack, we can discuss humanity.
    I may even provide first aid, it does go with my training.
    But until the threat is over, no quarter is given or offered.
    The bad guy had ample opportunity to choose a different victim, to be a good guy, to take their meds, etc.

    Start the fight, probably not.
    End the fight? By hook or by crook I will.

    #48585
    Tolik
    Tolik
    Survivalist
    member10

    I hear ya , like I said its al situational , some situations offer no alternative or time . The good cop values human life , the bad one doesnt care one way or the other , but thats in everyday situations for the work they do , on the job . Unless we turned into North Korea , they are also trained to make an attempt if the situation permits . In a SHTF condition , like we envision , cops are now civilians , there is no law , they are just individuals trying to get through it , like everybody else . They , like the rest of us will do the best they can , only difference is , they will have the edge on spotting and assessing the situation in front of them , and will act according to their judgement …………..like the rest of us . I believe very strongly , that every individual has the right and obligation to self defense or defense of others . Good luck to all .

    #48586
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    In my view how LE act is only relevant to me in respect to a shtf event. I expect a full spectrum of behaviors just like everyone else displays.

    #48588
    Profile photo of Brulen
    Brulen
    Survivalist
    member9

    Rick Grimes still wore the badge and hat even after hell was full and the dead walked the earth. But WD is a fantasy experiment in mass killing. More to the point. 16000 criminal illegals released by the u.s. government. An unknown number of murders among them. All because their home countries would not take them back. Are they serious? What exactly do I expect from the cops in this situation? Well duh these people have no rights in the US. They’re going home in a casket if their families even want them back. One little middle finger or one ugly cop epithet….bang. End of story. Shoot to kill order. Screw humanity. The shtf. One loophole deserves another. The girl in S.F. didn’t have to die. Someone is going to be responsible. If the southern border of the u.s. Isn’t controlled we have no government. The fan hit the ****. It’s a government in name only. The surge is coming.

    #48594
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    Brulen,
    No one is going to be held responsible.
    The blame may be laid at various doorsteps, but those responsible, those who allowed every POS, dirtbag to remain in this country will bear absolutely zero responsibility.
    Why should they, they were following human nature.

    Control the border, doesn’t matter.
    Thank you sanctuary cities.
    Thank you States that supply every need to criminals but not citizens.

    There was a time people celebrated the death of a bad guy.
    Now, vilification in the media 24/7, your life ruined, regardless.
    Because no one else will take responsibility, not the parents, not the media, not the scumbag lawyers, nobody.

    Why? Because no one really cares.
    Really.
    Sure, all the feel good laws, actions, causes, and associated BS.
    But that doesn’t actually mean anything.

    Recently a co-worker was awaken by loud shouting in front of his house.
    His response? To yell at them to be quiet.
    Instead of calling the cops about a domestic fight in progress. (It was)
    Instead of doing something with a known woman beater. (He knows this)
    Instead of doing anything useful, he just yelled.
    Such concern, such bravado.
    And he felt good about what he did.

    “Don’t cross that border”
    “Don’t beat your wife and kids”
    “Don’t steal that”.
    All words but nothing behind them except feel good BS.

    Unless you are ready and willing to deal with ‘stand and deliver’, its all just words with nothing behind them but ” feel good”.

Viewing 14 posts - 16 through 29 (of 29 total)

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