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  • #7678
    Toby C
    Toby C
    Survivalist
    member6

    I was over in the “What to do when unprepared family arrived” thread, but Robin had a good idea to lift out and start and expanded discussion on a point I made in there… What I posted was:

    Try to define ‘specifics’ instead of ‘variables’ especially with human interaction, if it is not clear before you engage (this can be a positive as well as a negative thing) then chaos can (and often will) ensue… Talk about your ‘triggers’ and ‘actions on’ NOW! What do you NEED how will you get it? what do you NOT WANT…? Stark terms but necessary…

    As I read many of the great threads in this forum it becomes quite clear that we are all addressing and looking into a lot of the ‘variables’ we will come across in many different situations, one of the most complex of which is ‘How are we going to deal/interact with other people’… From my perspective, I tend to turn a lot of conversations on their head because they can sometimes make more sense when we come from a totally different perspective…

    If we look at all the ‘variables’ (If I say this, they may do that, if they do that, I could do this and this and this etc) that can occur in an exchange/conversation/interaction with another person or group, we will soon be swamped with things to worry or think about. From a planning perspective this is highly undesirable. In order to simplify our thought process instead of looking at ‘what if’, we need to look at ‘what do we want’. If we strip things down to that level of simplicity it makes planning far easier. So an example, borrowing from the initial thread, What happens when ‘X’ knocks at my door. If you address your ‘need’, then the simplest answer could be, I don’t want to deal with this person or let them in (your need) instead of then getting into a complex diatribe on how you’ll articulate or infer your desire to not let them in, just don’t answer the door… Yes, I’m talking that simple.

    But as social primates we start to think all sorts of funny things, especially if we may do something that is considered ‘rude’. Now this higher level thinking is not only a bad idea, but in a survival situation is out and out dangerous. However most of us are so conditioned from society we have this pressing ideal that we *must* open the door and proffer a reason or explanation to our caller. We see this everywhere and it is a conditioning cycle we need to break. I routinely practise this by not answering my phone and ignoring knocks at my door amongst other things. Just observe in your daily life how many people *cannot* not answer their ‘phone, even when it is dangerous to do so! You get my point…?

    Being ‘rude’ aside, we can find many of our concerns we raise can be eliminated if we go for the ‘identify the specific’ instead of the ‘think of all the variables’ approach. Most, if not all of our preparation efforts and if we are dealing with a SHTF incident, tasks we are performing, must be goal focussed, and if they are we are purely concerned with reaching that goal (in the military we would be saying ‘accomplishing the mission’) ALL efforts are on that, anything else is superficial. Dealing with a real life event means we MUST adjust our thinking, in such a radical way for most people that you need to start practising now. I’m not saying you’ll win any friends by doing so, but you may loose way more if you can’t ‘switch thinking’ if the time comes…

    How do you plan for dealing with certain situations…?

    #7684
    Robin
    Robin
    Survivalist
    member8

    Thanks Toby C for starting this topic. Turning things on their head is a somewhat novel idea for my group and I.
    I intend to talk to them about:
    1. “Not answering the door” – how to break from the conditioned reflex.
    2. How to “accomplish the mission” by coming up with the different “triggers and actions” we expect on a daily
    basis after SHTF.
    3. Our “tasks” after SHTF and how to achieve those “goals.”

    Robin

    #7696
    Toby C
    Toby C
    Survivalist
    member6

    Awesome Robin! I’m pleased the points are generating discussion :)

    ‘Refex’ practices can be positive or negative. The phone and door ones I mentioned can be classed as negative as they are ‘rude’, more positive can be striking up a conversation with a total stranger, this gets real fun if you make it ‘mission focussed’. Can you get specific information from them? How much information from them? You can do this online as well as in person, (good) exploitation of information requires practise, there is no time like the present! :) Start of easy but then start to play with some social engineering type stuff, it can truly be shocking what information people will divulge, this also starts to get you conditioned to ‘questions questions’ (Why does this person want to know this about me…?)

    If you are into firearms, especially in the US, it is interesting to explore the ‘habit’ of never pointing your firearm at anyone, interesting to start analysing how ‘deep’ that conditioning goes…? Amongst many many other things!

    On point 2, often I like some real simple but beneficial ‘triggers’ to begin with. When I applied to join the military (wow, now I’m tripping down memory lane ;) ) one of the physical entry requirements was to do 18 full pull ups. I could barely muster 4 at the time, so I set up a pull up bar in the doorway to my bathroom, and everytime I went in there you had to ‘pay’ a 3 pull up entry ‘fee’, needless to say it did not take that long before my pull up numbers rapidly increased. So habit formation being as tough as it is, needs to start out small and grow from there, but try and stay ‘mission focussed’ (hence the fitness example, as it is practically impossible to be ‘too fit’)

    Breifly on .3, if you haven’t done it already, ‘reading the terrain’ and looking at travel/movement alternatives in your area is very fun to explore!

    I’m hoping you’ll be able to share some of your ideas and strategies that you come up with, I must say for the first time in a loooooong time I am really enjoying being on a forum and sharing ideas and experiences :)

    #7708
    Hannah
    Hannah
    Survivalist
    member6

    My rule is this and it applies to everything after SHTF: I won’t be opening the door. Please, for your safety, don’t try to open it. (I won’t be sharing supplies. Please, for your safety, don’t try to take my supplies.)
    Simple.

    #7713
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Toby,
    I like this thread as it encourages an analytic process. Since security is such a big issue and it is entirely related to interactions with other people. I just want to throw this out there. When and where do you want that interaction to happen? How do you control it and/or can you control it?

    #7720
    Toby C
    Toby C
    Survivalist
    member6

    1974, GREAT point. Having interactions happen not on your doorstep can be highly desirable, but then it means you are having to travel some place else… I’ve some ideas, but really would love to see other peoples thoughts on this thread / these questions :)

    #7723
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    Toby,
    If you are into firearms, especially in the US, it is interesting to explore the ‘habit’ of never pointing your firearm at anyone, interesting to start analysing how ‘deep’ that conditioning goes…? Amongst many many other things!

    This is one of the reasons that LE almost exclusively use ‘silhouette’ targets.
    The newer “picture” targets are even better for this purpose, despite the negative comments they bring from various groups.

    I use a number of these in my CCW classes. We also spend a lot of time using ‘blue guns’ (safety trainers) getting the students used to pointing ‘guns’ at people.

    #7864
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Toby,
    Not having meetings on the door step could be interpreted in different ways. I plan to control the area near my home, Strangers will not be able to drive or walk into the area so meetings will be located in a controlled spot. They will be subject to ambush technics and aproaching an armed sentry control point.

    If my home is approached from irregular travel route it will be apparent their intent is harmful and will be dealt with using a suitable response.

    #8006
    Profile photo of tweva
    tweva
    Survivalist
    rreallife

    I could drive myself completely crazy if I focus too much on the variables when the basics of an operationally good SHTF plan is hard enough to work and achieve. So, I try not to let my mind go there too often right now. To prepare my place and myself so that I can adequately secure, shelter, feed and stay healthy when SHTF and practice that basic level, now – today – every day takes a lot of work, planning and mental energy. Especially, while living in today’s current world. Only once I feel one area is basically covered, currently ‘working’ can I allow myself to entertain the variables that might be encountered in a particular area.

    Interaction with others brings up such a multitudinous set of variables frankly I don’t have the time or energy to spend lots of time thinking much about it beyond the basics. Not that it isn’t something one doesn’t consider of course because it plays a role in all that I am doing in the basic areas of security, food, shelter etc. Fortunately i’ve had lots of experience in my life dealing and interacting heavily with the general public. For good or bad it has made me fairly jaded and cynical. It will no doubt stand me in good stead in the future. Instinct and the ability to discern another’s intent will no doubt come in to play in many situations that I have yet to imagine.

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