June 20, 2015 at 11:22 pm #42006
This is an interesting video , its all speculation , but Interesting . The interesting thing about the US is that in secession is still not unconstitutional , you would have thought that it would have been after the civil war …….but apparently its not . No ” permission ” needed .June 21, 2015 at 12:10 am #42007
Texas may again be a Republic. Laying the groundwork now?
RobinJune 21, 2015 at 1:04 am #42008
Whether States can secede is an interesting topic, though it didn’t work out so well for the Confederacy when they tried it. I’m not sure why the topic always centers on TX. If one State can do it, then all 50 would have the same right. Some say that TX reserved the right to secede and even to split into 5 States if it so chose, but I think that is more urban legend than actual legal fact. A lot of armchair lawyers on that one. Some make a big deal out of the fact that Texas was once independent but it isn’t the only State with that status. Hawaii was an independent country for a very long time, California was an independent country for a few weeks, Texas for 9 years, and Vermont an independent country for 14 years. Like with Texas and perhaps other States there is the occasional rumble in Vermont to secede, but they don’t pretend that they have the legal right to do so just because it was once an independent country (1777 – 1791).June 21, 2015 at 5:51 am #42009
The issue of State secession was first considered by the Hartford Convention during the closing days of the War of 1812. As far as I know, though they were eventually persuaded to abandon their plan, they weren’t forbidden to secede by any law. (Does any such law yet exist?)
The Confederacy was kept in the Union by military force, so probably, the feuderal government could still prevent secession by force, though economic wherewithal for protracted battle might be hard to come by, if conditions deteriorate to the extent that secession seems better than remaining.
Still, no denial of future exit was ever imposed as a condition of statehood. Would you join an organization which had as condition of membership, that regardless of how the organization might later treat you, you could nonetheless, never leave? Too much like “Hotel California” for me.
So, if over the next 20 years, this betrayed and crumbling Republic becomes a perfect “Peoples’ Republic”, but remains territorially intact, would you conclude that it had “survived?”
Cry, "Treason!"June 21, 2015 at 3:15 pm #42011
A piece of the secession issue that never gets discussed is the fiscal aspect. No doubt folks in Texas or elsewhere just assume they would walk away with all Federal assets within their borders and with entitlements such as Social Security still being due their citizens, but not taking with them a proportional share of the Federal debt.June 21, 2015 at 3:21 pm #42012
Thing is , I would think that it just wont be one state …………..Texas might be the 1st to drop out , but if they did it , it might start a chain reaction . Then you have groups of states forming a new republic , that is very doable . The way most people feel in this country right now , one drops out , others will also , and most likely very quickly . The Confederacy was formed very quickly , all it took was one state doing it to get the snowball rolling . And in an economic collapse , which seems probable , all the entitlements will be of no value anyway , they will be worthless . Pretty much a win situation for the people , as they have nothing to loose and everything to gain , except that they actually will have a true voice in the new nations direction . I think it would be good for the country in the long run .June 21, 2015 at 3:38 pm #42013
If it comes to that, I’m OK with a pairing of VT, NH, ME, and possibly the northern tier of NY counties, the ones north of Interstate 90. That basically excludes all of the big cities in NY State.June 21, 2015 at 3:42 pm #42014
Thats just it , each state has something to contribute to a new republic . Even as worthless as I think Arizona is , they do produce around 60% of the nations copper , things like that .June 21, 2015 at 6:09 pm #42015
Yes every State has something to offer. The most important thing that has effectively been squelched by Federal control of so much at the State level is that if the States had more autonomy we’d have more innovation coming out of a competition of sorts between States for better ways of doing things. Instead what we have now are Federal mandates for just about everything. One size fits all.
I have to laugh though because I’m not sure many would even notice if Vermont were gone. Tourism is Vermont’s biggest industry plus we’re the primary source of maple syrup (the real stuff, not the fake stuff some label as maple syrup). All that would still be available I suppose if we went our own way but what the rest of you would miss out on is having a world class Olympic Ski Team.June 22, 2015 at 4:17 am #42017
THink about this aspect of life everybody , this is going to sound strange , but really think about it for a moment . Most americans today are going to have to learn HOW to be free , because we are not free . When the civil war ended , the newly freed black slaves , did not KNOW HOW to be free . Their entire existence prior to that point was decided for them , they didnt have to think , just do what they were told . THey were fed , clothed , etc . They had to LEARN how to be free . Well the same principle still holds true today with modern americans , we will have to LEARN HOW to be free , once all goes down , and there is no longer the propaganda machine telling us how to think or behave , when all the entitlements stop , etc . Do we really KNOW HOW to be free?June 22, 2015 at 10:57 am #42022
Said another way, people would have to learn how to be responsible for themselves and accountable for their choices. Many have never had role models in that regard and would not know where to begin. It would be a very difficult transition.
It is only an option in small communities given the practical aspects of how many people can come together to make decisions but if any here find themselves in a position of re-inventing local govt., I strongly suggest you consider the Town Meeting format of govt. that small towns in New England have used since the 1600’s. It literally is the coming together of the registered voters of a community to discuss the Town’s business and make decisions on all spending issues, bylaws, zoning, Town employee staffing levels/compensation/benefits, whether the police get a new cruiser or the highway dept. a new truck, and so forth. The Town Selectboard are empowered to only do that which Town Meeting has authorized them to do. The people truly do control their local govt. Everyone gets their say at Town Meeting and all have an equal voice. The rich guy in Town can’t dominate and business/economic entities do not have a vote. Non-residents can only speak if Town Meeting authorizes them to speak. Meetings are orderly, though they can be long at times when there is controversy. Though not a requirement, under this form of govt., much of the Town’s work is done via committees and volunteers. That serves to promote active participation on the part of the people rather than deferring to anonymous bureaucrats. Town Meeting has stood the test of time since the 1600’s. If re-inventing local govt where you live, it is worth consideration.June 22, 2015 at 2:45 pm #42025
I would suspect that the learning curve for freedom would be very steep. Too many people in this country do not appreciate the responsibilities that come with being truly free.
It appears though that some states are at least laying the ground work for the possibility of seceding. For example Texas is now going to take physical possession of their gold. They are already energy independent including have their own self contained electrical distribution network.
Can anyone address the western states in general? Arizona and New Mexico seem relatively liberal. How would Montana, Idaho and Wyoming respond?
With the Feds declaring they own all the water, that seems like a potential battle line.June 22, 2015 at 3:35 pm #42028
For Wyoming and parts of occupied Colorado, water is an important piece of the puzzle.
But push too hard and Wyoming has certain things written into its constitution, and could consider the contract between the Sovereign State of Wyoming and these United States null and void.
And as we control a significant amount of oil and coal, and a main thoroughfare, it could get very interesting.June 24, 2015 at 1:58 pm #42044
The first time we tried to go our own way, the Federals invaded and burned down a good bit of the South. Killed a bunch of good folks that just wanted to be left alone, too… They saw a fat paycheck walking out the door when we left, so it was in their best interest to invade and bring us to heel, even though we were righteous. The fact that they sold their own people a bill of goods and wrapped the war up in some fraudulent “noble” cause in order to make Mr. Lincoln’s War more palatable didn’t change that it was always about money…
In the future, I’m thinking that if anywhere is “permitted” to secede, it’s going to be occupied territory – those La Raza dirtbags been agitating for years for their phony-baloney, never-existed “Aztlan”… I can see the political correctness and cultural Marxism becoming so strong that the Federals will gladly give away big chunks of these United States to satisfy some urge to pay back us evil Euros for “stealing” the land from those poor folks in the first place… Occupied territory isn’t really America anyways… oh, it might have that starry rag flying over it, but for all intents and purposes, it’s not America anymore… it’s someone else’s country. The flag is just a fig leaf.
The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1June 27, 2015 at 7:30 am #42090
Secession; essentially it started today in Texas with this order by Governor Abbott. If any topic could create a separation between the States, freedom of religion and First Amendment rights has the volatility and support of the public to make a State secede.
“In a directive issued in the last few hours, Texas Governor Gregg Abbott has informed all those agencies that they are to comply with the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, Article I of the Texas Constitution, and the Texas Religious Freedom Act. In other words, he just shut down same-sex marriage in Texas and ordered everyone to preserve the religious liberties and First Amendment rights of all Texans.”
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