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  • #13681
    Profile photo of patjoe
    patjoe
    Survivalist
    member2

    Last night we went to a climate change meeting at our local public library sponsored by http://350.org/. There were credible presenters, including a city councillor, a university professor who designs weather models, Idle No More members who protest the Keystone XL pipeline, and an urban planner from a nearby city, so I have no reason not to believe them. Our city now has 500,000 people.

    We were told to expect 100,000 climate change refugees from low-lying countries around India by 2030. Our city council wants them ALL to be housed in the impoverished lower city delta because there is more public transit, but we already lack enough affordable housing and jobs here.

    The rich mountain section of the city will not take the refugees. We were also told that although the average global warming by 2030 will be 2 degrees Celsius, Ontario will experience 4 to 4.5 degrees Celsius of warming. There will be at least 75 days per year of “extreme discomfort” by 2050, meaning temperatures above 40 degrees Celsius for us, and 15 of those will be killer days of 45 degrees or more with the Humidex.

    We already have a serious smog problem in the lower city delta because the steel mills are located here. This will be SHTF by 2030 as far as Hamilton is concerned. There is talk of a class action lawsuit against the government because they knew about this in advance, but took no action to ameliorate it.

    What are the predictions for where you live? Do you think climate change will be the tipping point for SHTF where you live, or will the cause be something else? How can we prepare for extreme heat, powerful winter storms, and an influx of refugees?

    #13698
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    “There were credible presenters, including a city councillor, a university professor who designs weather models, Idle No More members who protest the Keystone XL pipeline, and an urban planner from a nearby city, so I have no reason not to believe them”

    Patjoe, you meant this a satire right?

     

    #13712
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    Ask for facts, provable science, not some wishy washy theory.

    Something that can be proven, not that is just some wet dream of some social engineer.

    And why would 100000 Indian refugees end up in ontario anyways? Africa is the logical choice. The middle east a close second.

     

    #13762
    Jay
    Jay
    Survivalist
    member3

    I know this is a debate for some but climate change is a fact 97% of scientists agree upon but only 55% of people believe in.

    Regardless where people stand in this debate, it is a serious concern for many areas and even if not, it makes sense to prepare for the probability that those 97% of scientists are right. Peer reviewed studies and meta studies (studies about studies) are as close as we can get to the truth right now and climate change has been researched by scientists from all over the world so believing that all those studies are manipulated due to their study design and what is tested…. is a bit of a stretch in my opinion.

    Anyway, I doubt there will be global streams of refugees because right now we can also keep (more or less) economic refugees in their countries so I think this won’t change. Maybe more people from Mexico in the US but Indians in Canada? Not sure why they would go there. (Even though Canada is an awesome country of course)

    Did they elaborate this point a bit?

    Anyway, there are plenty of studies for specific areas and when I googled for my area and climate change I came across some very detailed and also peer reviewed research that lays out what changes I can expect. Google Scholar is a great search engine for research papers.

    I prepare accordingly but at the end of the day everyone has to decide what they want to prepare for. I don’t know about the political side of this and I don’t really care. For me climate change and the droughts that will come with it for my area are part of my preparations, if this does not happen, even better. :)

    Just means I have a bit too much water and not too little. If anyone feels like it, I would like to hear more about why some people do not want to believe in climate change. I know Al Gore made this one movie (but I dont know why this matters). Is climate change used as a reason to push some political agenda?

    If it is just to make people look out better for their environment, then I wouldnt know whats bad about it.

    Alea iacta est ("The die has been cast")

    #13776
    Profile photo of patjoe
    patjoe
    Survivalist
    member2

    In answer to your questions:

    Canada is a very popular immigrant destination because the Government of Canada actively encourages immigration of skilled workers by misleading them. I am the child of European immigrants, myself, so I know first-hand the hardship these newcomers will face. There are 1.6 million South Asians in Canada now, and 857,575 of them live in my area already. (Source: http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/south-asians/) The anticipated 100,000 new arrivals is an estimate from the consulates. Immigrants often cannot find jobs here, or they work below their level of qualifications. For example, our friend  from Burma/Myanmar is a medical doctor who had to move away from Hamilton to escape running a laundry.

    Africa is not a suitable alternative, according to German researchers at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research. Christoph Müller, the lead researcher, reports “Sudan and Ethiopia; the countries surrounding Lake Victoria in central Africa; and the continent’s south-eastern corner, especially parts of South Africa, Mozambique and Zimbabwe … are expected to see more severe dry seasons and reduced plant growth, with flooding near Lake Victoria. … the sub-Saharan Africa regions where by 2100 there will be a high likelihood of possibly severe climatic impacts affecting countries with relatively high populations and high poverty rates.”

    The Middle East is not a suitable alternative because of the on-going drought in Syria. Many Arab states already host large numbers of climate refugees. It was the drought that sparked the uprisings of the Arab Spring.

    The 10 countries to be most affected by climate change by 2030: Bangladesh; Burma; India; Vietnam; Philippines; China; Haiti; Dominican Republic; Honduras; and Nicaragua.

    Even if you don’t believe in climate change, you must have noticed the weather is becoming less predictable. Prices are increasing because of prolonged drought in Texas (meat) and California (produce), and crop diseases in Florida and Central America (citrus and bananas).

     

     

    #13778
    Profile photo of lci115lewis
    lci115lewis
    Survivalist
    member3

    I would expect if any refugees ended up in Canada most of them would be from wealthier families.

    Where climate change tends to get most political is when trying to assign how much of it is natural and how much is man made. Personally I would welcome the next ice age, Arizona becomes a really nice place to be when the glaciers have covered much of the Northern parts of the US and Canada.

    Rob

    #13789
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Jay,
    I don’t know where a fact could be generated anymore, certainly not something involving politics and money. I do know for a fact that the predictions are based on models, created by men with aspirations. Models are guesses predicting what will happen, so there can be no level of certainty the outcome will match the model.

    It’s not like all the naysayers are all a bunch of hacks. Look at this list. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming

    #13792
    Jay
    Jay
    Survivalist
    member3

    Thanks Patjoe for providing this context.

    India definitely needs to move people at some point. If you look at human population density maps like this, its quite obvious they have problems sooner or later.

    I have only the choice to stay in Europe or South East Asia long term, so for me neither is really good, given the population density.

    You guys in Canada should still have it rather pretty good compared to many other places.

    Alea iacta est ("The die has been cast")

    #13798
    Jay
    Jay
    Survivalist
    member3

    Jay,
    I don’t know where a fact could be generated anymore, certainly not something involving politics and money. I do know for a fact that the predictions are based on models, created by men with aspirations. Models are guesses predicting what will happen, so there can be no level of certainty the outcome will match the model.

    It’s not like all the naysayers are all a bunch of hacks. Look at this list. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming

    I know what you mean and as soon as politics and along with it money gets involved you are instantly in muddy waters.

    While I think it is good to believe it is man made in any case (because then maybe more people would treat their environment more responsibly) at the end of the day why global warming happens doesn’t change that it seems to happen and I want to be prepared for that.

    Alea iacta est ("The die has been cast")

    #13799
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    I’m staying out of this… except to say that I seriously doubt we here in the Bluegrass would see any “refugees”, except maybe in Lexington and Louisville… and, thanks to the government headhunting us and killing off Tobacco, the horse trade and now coal, our economy is decimated. There is no “Free ****” to give them, except maybe in the the above two cities… and, since I don’t go to either one hardly ever, then I don’t care. The rest of the Commonwealth is pretty much still Scots/Irish/German and folks who are not are…. unpopular….

    I doubt we’ll see anyone… thank God.

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

    #13802
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    It is interesting that we are discussing this today. I’m providing a link to a letter of resignation by Chancellor Lord Lawson. The letter is brings to light the problem with relying on consensus in science.

    “The Swedish climatologist, meteorologist, former director of the Max Planck Institute for Meteorology in Hamburg and winner, in 2006, of the 51st IMO Prize of the World Meteorological Organization for his pioneering work in numerical weather prediction – was by some margin the most distinguished scientist to change sides”

    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/05/14/Climate-Science-Defector-Forced-to-Resign-by-Alarmist-Fatwa

    #14465
    Selco
    Selco
    Survivalist
    member6

    Canada is a very popular immigrant destination because the Government of Canada actively encourages immigration of skilled workers by misleading them.

    I can agree with picture of Canada as very popular. For years here it is been shown like promised land, and quite number of folks emigrated there because promises about lot of jobs opportunity.

    #14469
    Profile photo of patjoe
    patjoe
    Survivalist
    member2

    There are plenty of immigrants from the former Yugoslavia in the Greater Toronto Area. Most of them cannot work at the skilled jobs for which they trained in Europe. For example, I know a Croatian carpenter who is now a medical secretary, a Serbian ordained minister who is now a truck driver, a Serbian sailor who is now a road toll booth operator, and a Macedonian sheep farmer who now owns a small café for the lunchtime crowd of factory workers. Those are the lucky ones. The streets are not paved with gold here.

    #14472
    Profile photo of tweva
    tweva
    Survivalist
    rreallife

    <div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>patjoe wrote:</div>Do you think climate change will be the tipping point for SHTF where you live, or will the cause be something else? How can we prepare for extreme heat, powerful winter storms, and an influx of refugees?

    I don’t know what causes ‘traditional’ weather patterns to change. But I do believe they have. I look at my planners with previous years data for the gardens and greenhouse in winter and big changes. Don’t know if change in weather patterns will be tipping point; but do believe it will exacerbate problems. Where I live I don’t worry about climate refugees. I have had to, already, begin changing growing methods (ground here has not quite reached 55 deg F which has not ‘normally’ been the case for this late in May for example – so delayed planting etc) and adjusting schedules and work priorities (increasing the time spent prepping firewood for colder winters) etc.

    #15718
    Profile photo of SeTe
    SeTe
    Survivalist
    member1

    If one is to believe in the “climate experts consensus” then one is not following their history of “global cooling”, “global warming” and now because their record speaks for itself, “climate change” or following the money! All of the these “climate issues” can be fixed if people are taxed and corralled into cities and make massive sacrifices of their life styles. Does anyone notice the hypocrisy of what climate alarmist say versus what they do and how they live? Can we say agenda 21?

    The article linked to above at Breitbart is very accurate as to what happens when a person does not join in the “scientific consensus” (an oxymoron if ever there was) of thought. The “scientific consensus” comes from money, if the “scientific consensus” outcome doesn’t agree with where the money comes from the funding dries up. These so called scientist have taken “science” out of it and turned it into “group think for money”! Money buys a lot of things and the science community, especially when it comes to weather, has been bought and paid, an any non-members attacked and discredited!

    Remember science is about facts, verifiable and repeatable, not “consensus”, meaning “general agreement”. We can all agree the world is flat, that doesn’t mean it is just because we call ourselves “scientist” and agree the world is flat! Oh and one more thing, “peer review” is the same as “peer pressure”, meaning using a persons colleges to apply pressure upon individuals to join them or make them an outcast… Yep, grade school play ground tactics!

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