August 19, 2014 at 12:14 pm #22567
A question for folks here about caching of supplies. What are your thoughts on doing it above ground? This would be laying 8″ round heavy duty PVC pipes about 5′ long with caps on the ground, throwing camo colored tarps over it, then adding leaves and other woodland debris on top. Within a year, you’d be hard pressed to see anything out of the ordinary. There is no way I could ever dig holes in my woods. It is very thick with trees and hard to walk through due to the abundance of roots and large stones everywhere, plus the water table is at or near the surface in much of it. For those reasons the local hunters tend to go to easier acreage and just consider my woods to be a sanctuary of sorts for the deer. Even if you could dig holes in my woods in the summer, the ground is going to be frozen solid for maybe 4 months each winter.
This all came to me in a somewhat unsettling dream last night. It hadn’t been on my near term to do list and so I’m not sure what prompted it, but now I’m wondering if maybe it could work?August 19, 2014 at 12:37 pm #22571
Make sure it is 100% water proof since you say that the water table is at or near the surface. Water table may go up and water will get into your caching of supplies. I would cover the PVC pipes with another tarp and duck tape it.
Water is incredible, it will find a way to get in so try to seal it good.
I do agree that no one will be looking there.August 19, 2014 at 12:49 pm #22573
MTB, You run the risk of discovery accidental or otherwise. How about doing the same thing but cover it with soil, then leaves and debris. Making a low gradual hump. Place the end of a log on the end so it could be removed to expose the end-cap of the cache. A thin layer of dirt over the cap could conceal the cache if the log is moved. During the winter months use an axe or sledge to unstick the log. Finding anything under snow is a challenge, you will need a foolproof method. I like triangulation for marking.August 19, 2014 at 3:04 pm #22594
All the above seem to me would work. One thing extra: How do you plan to control the moisture inside the sealed tube?
RobinAugust 19, 2014 at 5:39 pm #22620
Moisture is the problem with all the water in the area. Robin is right that even the plastic will get moisture inside.August 19, 2014 at 6:04 pm #22621
Are there moisture absorbers that can be used for this?
Bugs Bunny: "I speak softly, but I carry a big stick."
Yosemite Sam: "Oh yeah? Well I speak LOUD! and I carry a BIGGER stick! and I use it, too!" BAM!August 19, 2014 at 6:20 pm #22622
You can use descant packets but they would eventually have to be changed out once they got saturated. I would recommend vacuum packing everything individually before you put it in the pipe. I am not 100% sure about this but you might get rid of the condensation issue if you put a vent in the pipe.August 19, 2014 at 8:10 pm #22636
If the pipe is sealed tight 100% you will only have the moisture content of the original air in the tube. If you seal it on a cold as snot dry day when the snow squeaks, you will have the least moisture for VT. Cover everything in cosmoline, they sell it in spray-on cans or cans for a brush. Mylar bags: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001Y0Y8C6/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B001Y0Y8C6&linkCode=as2&tag=thegrenorpre-20August 19, 2014 at 8:24 pm #22650
You can use the Oxygen Absorbers inside the tube which will get all the oxygen out. Get them here https://www.usaemergencysupply.com/information_center/packing_your_own_food_storage/packing_with_oxygen_absorbers.htm#.U_OyDaOGcdAAugust 19, 2014 at 11:26 pm #22666
There are several methods of packing items in cache tubes that can all but alleviate all moisture problems.
The first is easy, packing the items in mylar or plastic bags. Vacuum packing or the like for many items works perfectly fine in this instance. This keeps any moisture or water that may get in the tube off the items inside.
Secondly, items that may rust require a different touch, first you need to put a protectant layer on the item itself, LEE LIQUID ALOX actually works great for this. A thin layer creates a somewhat hard ‘layer’ or crust on things that keeps water and air off items. However you will have to remove this before use. After Aloxing all surfaces, you again put the item in a mylar or plastic bag and seal it.
Once the tube is capped and the cement hardened on the ‘bottom’, one packs the tube carefully. A string to the bottom item or a cup/bucket to aid in removing the items, especially on the longer tubes.
Once the tube is packed, you take a canister of nitrogen and fill the tube with nitrogen to evacuate all the air possible. A lit match held at the tube top will extinguish when the nitrogen gets to it’s level. At that point, you cap the top, either with a screw cap or a normal cap end.
The screw cap sealed with silicone sealant, a little in the threads and a bead around the opening outside will keep most water and moisture out. The normal end cap can be sealed with cement or silicone depending on how long you intend the tube to be under and where you put it. Cement if underwater of course.
For those who may not think of it, take a coarse hacksaw blade and coat it with the ALOX when you’re doing other items, then package it in a ziplock bag and duct tape it to the outside of the tube to allow you access without tools later.
The screw caps can be removed with a couple of branches and a bit of paracord, making an impromptu spanner.
Dessicant packs work, as do oxygen absorbers, much depends on how long you are putting the items back.
For short term, a little oil and ziplocks will do fine. As the length of time increases, the needs and methods change.August 20, 2014 at 3:41 am #22701
Thanks for all of the great ideas and comments. What I think I will do next is take a walk back there looking it over at with this project in mind. It might help clarify potential locations and approach.August 20, 2014 at 5:38 am #22707
Mountain Biker – I read an article recently on this same thing only the author came up with other alternative locations for hiding the PVC cache instead of on/in the ground. He hid one near the top of a large pine tree after painting it with a bark/needle camo job. Climbed up and tied a piece of 550 cord to the tube, then ran it back down the tree and put it on a hook a few feet above head level. To retrieve, take another piece of 550, tie to the one going to the tube and lower it to the ground. He also hid one in the rafters/structure of his barn. Again, you had to climb to get to it or even see it behind the large 2×10’s and such. If you make it difficult enough to find, usually it won’t be. Have trouble climbing? Find some kids and give them the end of the 550 cord…
The Food Saver bags are pretty tough and can be purchased in rolls that will accomodate long guns. If you oil and then wrap any sharp edges of the gun in softer material to protect the bag, then seal you’ll have a nearly oxygen free environment. The Food Saver system is great for preserving guns even if they are just going under the bed. If you’ve got it an oxygen disc or bag of dessicant can be added to the bag. Also, adding dessicant to the tube will add another level if the bag leaks. Check around with some local businesses that get electronics or similar items in that need a moisture proof environment and they may just give you any dessicant they get in with new shipments – it can be “dried” in an oven for a few hours – directions are usually on the package.
Careful with the silicone – too much in the threads and you will have to cut open or break the tube to get it open. I think if you screw on the cap, put one bead of silicone where the cap meets the tube and hang the tube so the seal is facing down, there’s little chance of water intrusion. Great idea from Whirli to tape a hacksaw blade to the outside just in case.
Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.
- Thomas PaineAugust 20, 2014 at 11:08 am #22713
Novus Ordo idea of hiding on a tree is a great idea. I have been thinking of that idea for a long time. You can always cut the tree down if you can’t get up there. But high on trees will be on of the last places they will be looking for. It does need to be sealed good too. Rain & water will try to get in so the same goes for the tree idea.August 20, 2014 at 1:17 pm #22721
One thing I would add about hiding stuff in a tree, you will want to check the rope holding the canister from time to time. It will deteriorate eventually from exposer to the elements. Wouldn’t want the rope to break and all your supplies go crashing to the ground.August 20, 2014 at 1:41 pm #22723
Another useful product for waterproofing is Oilcloth. Authentic oilcloth is made using linseed oil [as opposed to modern cloth which uses PVC]. Real oilcloth can be found at Hamilton Dry Goods, or you can make your own as described at http://www.ebay.com/gds/What-is-REAL-OILCLOTH-and-what-isnt-/10000000000952801/g.html
Bugs Bunny: "I speak softly, but I carry a big stick."
Yosemite Sam: "Oh yeah? Well I speak LOUD! and I carry a BIGGER stick! and I use it, too!" BAM!
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