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  • #45715
    Profile photo of namelus
    namelus
    Survivalist
    member7
    #45717
    Robin
    Robin
    Survivalist
    member8

    Knew it was coming but not at this level. I suspect the timing is to keep South Africa from being declared junk status!
    Robin

    #45718
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    It is still very interesting how in the articles they still compare values in dollars and not in yuan or rubles, for examples,
    “According to a Spiegel Online article, Russia made at least 20 billion dollars’ worth of profit with this little gambit alone, plus she repatriated about 30% of foreign-held Russian petroleum shares.”

    “It just fell to below US$ 50 / barrel, less than half of what it was in June 2014 (US$ 105 – WTI Crude).”

    Also the IMF only did “International Monetary Fund have voted to admit the yuan”

    I still do not see how the yuan will stay valuable without sales in the U. S. of there products. The U. S. purchase of Chinese products is more the 50% of what China produces. If the U. S. dollar collapses so will the yuan.

    The economy of China is not doing so good right now and so is Russia. U. S. dollar collapses so will the Chinese economy. Russia will still get hit hard but not as hard as China.

    What the Chinese are trying to do with the BRICS is to not be sooo dependent on the U. S. dollar, so is Russia. But I do not think that the dollar will collapse because of this. The dollar will collapse because of the total debt of the nation. The the new oil reserves in the U. S. and now that Israel found a oil reserve that maybe as large as the Saudi Arabia oil reserve that would mean no way for the dollar to end it’s value on oil for 100 years or more.

    But still the undoing of the dollar is not China or the oil but the national debt. It is not 18 trillion but 100’s of trillions when you add all liabilities.

    #45720
    Profile photo of namelus
    namelus
    Survivalist
    member7

    freedom they are tired of lending usa money to buy stuff they cant afford while usa is printing money to pay bills ( stealing from every other usd) they dont need usa any more you are not buying you are like wimpy in popeye gladly paying two hamburgers on thursday for one now as there is no money left. what happens when no hamburger is given today? Usa can no longer pay even the interest let alone the principal… reset coming.

    the big problem will come when the trillions of dollars come back due to non reserve status and they expect to buy get something the usa has for it…. what is the whole usa worth? What happens when trillions flood back and you need to buy yuan to trade or rubles? especially since only clearinghouse for yaun in north america is canada? http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/yuan-trading-hub-status-a-major-win-for-canada/article21541747/

    how much oil will you sell? no one wants your gmo food… what factories do you have what do you produce other than weapons?https://www.rt.com/business/324605-russia-putin-healthy-food/

    the ttp will screw everyone but usa is going to get it worse

    #45721
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    So namelus to who are the Chinese going to sell there products to? As it is there economy is having a hard time right now since the U. S. is not buying as much product. The same goes for Europe, they are not buying that much Chinese products.

    So the big question is who wants the Chinese products when the Euro or dollar collapses? No one! So the Chinese are in trouble too. It is all tide together were all will go down in the collapse. The U. S. is way to big of a consumer, the largest consumer in the world. U. S. goes down so will the world.

    No one will buy the Chinese products period.

    #45722
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Also so how much will the ruble and yuan be worth once the dollar collapses? They will lose 50 to 75% of there consumers that buy there products. Do you think they do not know this? They do. China knows this. China doesn’t know what to do when the dollar collapses. That is the real reason for the new system BRICS. Russia and China are trying to find a solution so they do not collapse too! Will it work who knows but they still have one problem! How do they find a large consumer base like the U. S.

    Without the large consumer base of the U. S. they collapse too.

    China’s middle class is still not big to be the replacement for the U. S. consumer base so a devaluation of the dollar will only make the Chinese devalue the yuan like they have done so many times so the U. S. consumers keep buying there products but every time they devalue the yuan it hurts there economy too.

    The thing is this topic has been around for years. The Chinese are the ones in trouble if the U. S. collapses.

    #45724
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    namelus, The U. S. produces all the technology of 90% of the products China sells. Apple products, Nike, Dell, 90% of all the clothing is designed in the U. S. and Europe. Not in China. The Chinese are not there as of now. All the tools that China makes are first designed in the U. S. or Europe. All there technology is also invented in the U. S. or Europe.

    China is ONLY good at reproducing what others invent and cheaper prices.

    Name me ten world wide Chinese products that were developed/invented in China? Not many.

    #45725
    Profile photo of L Tecolote
    L Tecolote
    Survivalist
    member8

    List of Chinese inventions

    Knock yerself out. Admittedly, some of them don’t affect us very much, and a few of the claims may be in dispute, or were invented independently, in other times and parts of the world. But paper, printing, gunpowder, and the compass were essential to the development of the modern world.

    The pertinent question would be what have they invented lately? Not much that we know of, other than perhaps, clever and economical adaptations of various Western and Russian technologies, most of them for warfare. But there’s no monopoly of brains and ambition anywhere in the world, and invention flourishes only where it pays off to the inventor.

    Chinese rammed earth walls are impressive. I lived in Weaverville, California for a while. There was a building the Chinese miners had built there, in the 1870’s (Chinese outnumbered whites 2:1 there, for a decade or so.) The walls were about 14 ft high, 60 ft long, and 2.5 ft thick at the base, tapering to 2 ft at the top. They were of the local mud, stomped between rough-cut board forms that were raised, as the wall hardened, and reinforced with 2 inch-3 inch diameter oak branches.

    A fire started (jackleg wiring) in one section of the building, destroying the contents of three businesses, and all the wooden roof and partitions. The wall still stood, largely unaffected. By local recollection, that same wall had previously withstood two previous fires, only to serve as the basis for rebuilding — over and over.

    After the fire, some people wanted to save the wall as a historical artifact, but the bank that had purchased the property sent a crew in to demolish it (on a Sunday, to avoid confrontation.) The wall was successfully tipped over sideways, but lay on the ground as a single outsized brick. It took a crew with jackhammers a couple of days to break it into truckable pieces.

    Cry, "Treason!"

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by Profile photo of L Tecolote L Tecolote.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by Profile photo of L Tecolote L Tecolote.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by Profile photo of L Tecolote L Tecolote.
    #45730
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    L Tecolote, Thank you. China have not much to hold on to if the U. S. goes down in a dollar collapse. This is why the Chinese have been buying tons of gold to hold the the yuan from a collapse but they will have no one to sell there products to. Russia is better with it’s oil reserve but who will be buying oil? The thing is Russia after the collapse will be better off.

    Dollar collapse may mean that the U. S. will start manufacturing all the product here. The U. S. will have no other way but to build it here which will bring back all the jobs that China has now. It will be hard at first but it will be harder on all other countries.

    #45731
    Profile photo of namelus
    namelus
    Survivalist
    member7

    ahhh freedom when is last time you looked at more than propoganda? you say no one buying chinese… look around you it all is including many military parts

    china a copy only look at the facts usa no longer leads patends

    http://www.ip-watch.org/2015/04/22/a-look-at-the-huge-upswing-in-china-patent-filings/

    China have a middle class making over 50k usd equivalent

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/chinas-rising-middle-class-will-create-opportunities-the-world-has-never-seen-before-2015-5

    all they need to do is sell to their own like americans have done since time of henry ford.. don’t need usa and the middle class of china has more people than population of usa without the crippling debt of a run away government.

    http://money.cnn.com/2015/10/14/news/economy/china-middle-class-growing/

    yuan is gold backed no mere fiat currency like usd you can keep looking for more articles if you wish

    http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/tag/gold-backed-yuan

    as for them taking a hit sure they will everyone will but usa will be in weimar germany position only being able to trade with hard items since their dollar worth nothing, will have to trade solid items for subsistence.

    things you use everyday that are invented in china

    paper money
    printing
    paper
    gunpowder
    compass
    coffins/urns
    forks/chopstick
    holistic health
    menus
    toilet paper
    the list goes on and on

    as for patents from them they are in everything you touch from your car to your coffee maker your computer ect all parts and pieces that are from chinese patent holders.

    Your view is old style the WEST is the power … no longer my friend we are a has been beaten on every level to continue to look at things that way will lead to a tragedy that is force multiplied by flawed view.

    if the usa does not buy their stuff they only have to go to BRIC to sell to over 42 percent of the world population to sell to as a equal…usa who can afford their stuff what little they do make? when even your own population can afford your made in usa who really can?

    #45732
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    China have a middle class making over 50k usd equivalent WHY because they sale Billions to the U. S.
    Without the U. S. sales what middle class will China have? ZERO!

    paper money
    printing
    paper
    gunpowder
    compass
    coffins/urns
    forks/chopstick
    holistic health
    menus
    toilet paper
    the list goes on and on

    Not one will make China any money without the U. S. consumer PERIOD!!

    Your view is old style the WEST is the power … no longer my friend we are a has been beaten on every level to continue to look at things that way will lead to a tragedy that is force multiplied by flawed view.

    Well who will they sell there products to my friend? To the Russians, no real large consumer there. WERE!! only the U. S. consumer uses a t-shirt one time and never uses it again. You use it till it has holes in it so you are not the right consumer for China to make trillions of dollars from. China would collapse. The truth is hard my friend!

    Your opinion of “if the usa does not buy their stuff they only have to go to BRIC to sell to over 42 percent of the world population to sell to as a equal…usa who can afford their stuff what little they do make? when even your own population can afford your made in usa who really can?”

    The BRIC counries are not the same type of consumers! You guys buy something and then will not buy again the same thing for years. We Americans buy two, three and sometime more and we do not fix anything, we buy new again and again, the best consumers in the world.

    Well we are talking about a collapse of the dollar right? If the dollar collapses then we here in the U. S. will start making all that is needed since we will not be able to buy from China, no dollar remember.

    We would make all the products that we need just like we use to and we Americans would all have great jobs and China well we would not be able to buy anything from them(remember the dollar collapse) so China would have to EAT THERE PRODUCTS. Collapse of China.

    You do not understand. You only think of how much you hate the U. S. But you need to understand that the U. S. is the biggest consumers in the world. China is so big because of the U. S. consumer buying everything they make. UNDERSTAND that. Europe consumers didn’t make China. Europeans think Americans are crazy because we buy so much, bigger cars, clothing(so much we throw it away or give it away) we do not fix any appliances so we throw them away, no were in the world do people do this. We are consumers of products that you can’t find anywhere in the world. This is why China has a problem if the U. S. collapses and they know this.

    Sorry my friend but you are wrong on this. I have traveled all over the world, I am 58 years old and since I been in my 20’s I had people like you in other countries tell me that the U. S. dollar was ending. I would tell them well you better be ready because when the dollar collapses your county will collapse too.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by Profile photo of freedom freedom.
    #45733
    Profile photo of GeorgiaSaint
    GeorgiaSaint
    Veteran
    member9

    We’re surrounded. We have a pitiful excuse for a world-class military (NO criticism of the actual personnel overall – just the top levels and the structure and the equipment, and the CinC). We have an electorate that won’t vote for the most part, and those that do keep putting our recent string of “leaders” back in office time after time after time. But hey! We’re the United States of America! Nothing bad will happen to us! [sarc/OFF]

    We went into town last night and attended a marvelous presentation titled, “The New American Freedom Train.” In one video segment of the live show, an individual said (as close as I can remember the quote): “The Soldiers are still the same, even though the civilian leaders and the ways in which the military are used are different.” Oh, what an entire book was contained in that single sentence.

    GS
    "Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land."

    #45735
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    GS, Agree but what I am talking about is China can’t make it on there own. They still need consumers. There middle class consumers are not the same as the U. S. consumer. We buy just to buy and sometime buy clothing for one event. How will China replace that? It will not happen.

    Yes the U. S. consumers maybe why we have so much debt but it is the drug that the Chinese are on right now. Can there system make it without us. They would lose 75% of all sales and how much will Europe lose in sales of there products if the dollar collapses?

    These are great questions. I think that the U. S. dollar collapse will start WWIII.

    #45736
    Profile photo of GeorgiaSaint
    GeorgiaSaint
    Veteran
    member9

    Don’t sell the Chinese quite so short. Despite their massive shortcomings, the part of them that really counts has managed to produce, for example, a highly secure fiber optic communications network for their government and military operations, nuclear subs, supersonic fighters, quite adequately potent nuclear weapons, etc. Copied from the west? Provided by Clinton? Who cares – they had the brains to take the plans and create the factories and produce the systems. And they DO have a growing middle class, and have strongly encouraged their population to acquire gold. We only see tiny clues in our own press, but put them together and one gets a picture of a not-so-incompetent country that also has its tentacles into South and Central America, Africa, and oh-so-many-other places around the globe. Oh – and did I mention those Chinese brains?

    One story that I’ve never seen mentioned anywhere is the number of Chinese nationals that have come to the United States and enlisted in the US military – some with graduate degrees obtained at US universities. What happens at graduation from Basic Training? A citizenship ceremony. With wives still back home in China. Ever seen that in the “news?” You’d be absolutely stunned at the number of foreign nationals that join our military and are pronounced US citizens upon graduation from initial entry training. At the same time, we’re also enlisting convicted US felons now (and have been for a number of years). Some of them, well trained in both tactics and marksmanship end up back on the streets in such garden spots as Detroit, Chicago, D.C., and elsewhere, to re-join their homeboys. Still feel so confident in the strength of the US? Sorry, my first hand knowledge leads me to a different comfort level. That’s not a personal shot at you, Freedom – just an observation based on personal knowledge and experience.

    I repeat: don’t sell the Chinese short. And don’t be so complacent about the ability of the US. There’s more to the Boy Scout motto (“Be Prepared”) than most really think about.

    GS
    "Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land."

    #45737
    Profile photo of L Tecolote
    L Tecolote
    Survivalist
    member8

    Freedom, I’ve no doubt that most of the world will suffer (additionally) when/if the US economy goes belly-up, (including us) especially any nation that makes a significant portion of its national income selling consumer goods to the USA. But I disagree that our wasteful conspicuous consumption is what makes us any sort of powerhouse. It makes us look like fools, easily parted from our moneyǂ, and it has dawned on most of the productive nations that much of our consumption, especially the blatantly wasteful part, is largely possible because “our” government has been able to get their governments to compel them to choke down increasingly worthless “dollars,” ginned up out of thin air and electrons. Only the equal chicanery of their own central banks to engage in the same kind of bogus currency “creation” keeps the Federal Reserve “Dollar” temporarily looking good by comparison.

    We tend to think of the US government, relative to the rest of the world, as the kind of ordinary people we encounter everyday — a mixture of saints and sinners, to be sure, but generally, decent folk, and we expect that our government represents our values to the world, unlike the few foreign heads of state, most of whom we regard as scarcely better than horned devils, and therefore, representative of the kind of people in those nations. USA GOOD! Everyone Else BAA-AD! I think we’ve been sold more than a few bills of goods.

    If the USA dropped off the financial grid tomorrow, the rest of the world would muddle through (maybe better than we might initially suppose, because they wouldn’t have the machinations of the Fed, and the fedgov to defend against.) The last time a nation was able to spend its currency at such advantage in its “area of influence,” was the few years when Nazi tourists were able to buy luxuries, finery and art works with Reichsmarks at rigged exchange rates from the destitute people in conquered lands. It didn’t last, and this won’t either. The BRICS nations are doing as much as they can to escape this scam with a whole skin. And if you are prepping for anything more serious than a good time on your next vacation, so are you, whether you realize it or not.

    ǂThe last (and only) time I bought clothing for a one-time use, I got it at a thrift shop that undersells Goodwill.

    Cry, "Treason!"

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by Profile photo of L Tecolote L Tecolote.
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