January 27, 2016 at 8:46 pm #46864
Sorry guys, I haven’t checked in for a bit. The signs are are along the I69 construction in Indiana. I will try to get some photos when I am up that way.
Fear we have a real tragedy taking shape out West. Prayers for everyone to stay safe.January 27, 2016 at 10:23 pm #46867
I am not that well versed on all the ins and out of this issue, but I must say that there has been a real difference between how the Feds handled this versus how Ferguson and Baltimore were handled….
Ambushing these guys in Bonny/Clyde style without provocation where the looters back East could burn and pillage as they wanted? There does seem to be a bit of a difference in how they are handling things….
Again, I am not 100% versed on the whole thing and am just being force fed what the media will allow me to know.
http://ageofdecadence.comJanuary 27, 2016 at 11:38 pm #46870
I just listened to the supposed eye-witness account of the one death, and it certainly is very, very troubling (and difficult) to listen to. Beyond that, It also does not sound like an obviously fabricated story. I really, really want to see the photos of the vehicle they were in – that will tell a book-load of information by itself. If she’s being honest (and accurate, given the trauma that certainly would have clouded at least some perceptions), and the car is indeed riddled with bullet holes (as sledjockey said, Bonnie & Clyde style – I thought exactly the same thing as I listened to her) – then the news media story that there were only three shots fired goes totally out the window. And if all the occupants – or even ANY of them – were firing at the FBI, I simply don’t believe the only person dead would have been the one that made it out of the vehicle. And for any of them to be actually RELEASED to where this young woman could have made the audio recording of what happened, never would have happened, if the FBI had been shot at by even one person still inside that car. Something, on one side or the other, is terribly riddled with outright lies. And for now I’ll just leave it at that. I am having a hard enough time wrapping my head around what it sounds like COULD have happened.
Something’s terribly wrong with this picture, and at this point one could say that the Bundy brothers (and others) went about their protest in the wrong way. Personally, I agree with Cliven Bundy when he said he wouldn’t have gone about it the way his sons did (taking over the refuge property). But this outcome quite likely should not have ended this way regardless – out in the middle of nowhere, out of cell phone coverage. I truly fear this is going to be used as great propaganda to show how crazy all the “right wingers” and “conservatives” are, and how the feds had to do what they could do to eradicate the nation of this cancer that seeks to overthrow this wonderful nation of ours. It will be more than interesting to see how the news media handles this in the coming days. They have the same access to this as we do, and then some, and certainly have that audio recording. We will learn much from the outcome, regardless of whether the Bundys were right or not in how they handled it all.
"Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land."
January 27, 2016 at 11:39 pm #46871
- This reply was modified 2 years ago by GeorgiaSaint.
Sled long story short BLM has been taking land in the area. A couple of ranchers got arrested on trumped up charges served the 6 months that they were sentenced. New Judge comes into town says 6 months is not enough and sentences them to 5 more years after they have already been out of prison a while. The Bundy group shows up and takes over the wildlife refuge office. Ranchers report to prison anyway. Bundy group basically is demanding the public lands be turned back over to the state and the ranchers released. Feds say no and here we are.January 27, 2016 at 11:45 pm #46872
GS I had questions about the shooting too. I think there are a lot of details missing.January 28, 2016 at 12:44 am #46876
I have strong suspicions also , I dont believe anything the FBI is saying . I smell cover up and worse . They get their orders from somewhere and someone . Just SayinJanuary 28, 2016 at 12:53 pm #46881
Stupid, very stupid.
Say what you like about .gov over reach and power.
But this is and was not the way to accomplish anything.
So far, we’ve only really gotten one version of the story.
And it’s highly biased in reality.
Information put out by those who weren’t there, about things they didn’t see.
It was a traffic stop, not a full frontal attack on the buildings.
This is where a dashcam and bodycams really shine.
And statements like when Finicum vowed a few weeks ago that he would die before spending his life behind bars, do not lead to positive endings.
I’m not picking sides, I’m looking at the situation as a whole, and waiting for more information.January 28, 2016 at 2:23 pm #46886
“Stupid, very stupid.
Say what you like about .gov over reach and power.
But this is and was not the way to accomplish anything.”
And oh so very sad. Governments have been crushing little bands of armed men with a calling all throughout history. Federal laws will never be changed without using the legislative process or the courts.January 28, 2016 at 2:42 pm #46888
I feel for the guys , but when I learned that they took over a building , I felt that they put themselves in an unwinnable situation .January 28, 2016 at 2:55 pm #46889
After reading more and watching the live feeds off and on yesterday it is pretty clear these folks just want to go home. I don’t discount that there was gov. overreach but the Bundy’s tried to use a situation to get attention and voice their opinion. Unfortunately there were some good people that took the Bundy’s side and now that the Bundy’s have been arrested these folk got left holding the bag. The FBI has agreed to let the remaining 5 all go, no harm no foul with the exception of one. That one person will be charged as the Bundy’s are being charged. They refuse to go home until they ALL can walk away. Sad deal for sure.January 28, 2016 at 3:49 pm #46891
Good points all around. I just hope this doesn’t fade out of sight in the public eye and we never see the details of the single death. As sledjockey said above, in Ferguson, Newtown, San Bernardino, and others, coverage was very different. We had news conferences on a regular and frequent basis, telling us what they knew at the time, with updates every few hours. In this case, there’s a virtual news blackout on LaVoy Finicum’s death. We’ve all (here) had the opportunity to listen to one allegedly eye witness account by a young woman, but I have seen nothing from that interview in any mainstream “news” statements. And all I’ve seen is statements that the FBI isn’t going to discuss an ongoing investigation. Period. Silence. No photos of the vehicles, not even any claims that Finicum pointed any weapon at agents (maybe he did, but I haven’t seen a claim that he did, let alone evidence).
I’m not one to jump to the conclusion that the remote location of the confrontation was designed to keep news media or the general public away from it. It truly may have been a legitimate concern that there would be a major gun battle, based on some of the statements coming from some of the armed occupiers, and the reported statements in some news reports. Tensions may well have been very high for the law enforcement side that night, as they waited in what certainly was at least a roadblock, and what could easily be considered an ambush. Whether that ambush was intended to kill somebody, I’m not at all ready to go out and claim. But it was none the less an ambush: a planned intercept of the group that was planning on going to a meeting at a town some distance from the refuge they’d overtaken. And the group knew nothing, apparently, that anyone was out there waiting for them in the dark. That’s an ambush. I actually suspect that the LE folks were quite surprised when they weren’t met with a hail of gunfire. But the fact is, we’ve got NOTHING except a recording that sounds pretty convincing of a young woman who claims things she witnessed – much of which is terribly concerning, IF true. And I fear this will go away because it was “only” one right wing whacko that was removed from the gene pool (as it’s being portrayed). Easy to forget, therefore no outcry from the public to learn details. And if a murder actually occurred, we may never know. And if a murder did NOT occur, we may never know. Right wing white lives don’t have the same equivalency as black lives, when one of each is lost.
"Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land."January 28, 2016 at 6:32 pm #46896
As far as the major news outlets are concerned this was never a news story. The whole land use issue is unlikely to be resolved in favor of westerners, it would require re-educating the entire US population. The population has been indoctrinated for the last 150 years to believe “this land is your land” and it needs to be protected.January 28, 2016 at 6:40 pm #46897
Here is another point , once the feds have the area contained …………………game over , whats the hurry ? The Romans were masters of containment , as were medieval people ……..once done you simply wait , you hold all the cards . Why push the issue if there isnt something sinister going on within their ranks . FBI credibility is absolute zero . Another way is to do nothing ………or passive isolation , what this does is make the movement loose steam and support , which it naturally would , people would be forced to go home , militia cant stay forever and would leave ………….either way , the occupiers loose ……………so whats the hurry . That has to be asked if they considered their motives just . Containment could have been done by the Sheriffs dept and not the feds .January 28, 2016 at 6:46 pm #46898
Is this whole issue based upon the way BLM seizes land? Is that what this is all about?
I know only a few things about the BLM land seizing thing:
1) If BLM gives you a “grant” to help you with anything, DON’T TAKE IT! They will come back and seize your land to “oversee” the upgrades and there is nothing you can do about it. If they want to “rebuild a waterway” they will seize several acres on either side of the waterway in addition to several acre swath of land as a way to access the waterway. I have known people that have had this happen.
2) If BLM comes in to help the state do anything on State land, they will seize that land as well. Then the BLM seized land is leased to the highest bidder for whatever resources it possesses. Seen this as well, especially here in WA.
Is that what this protest thing is about?
http://ageofdecadence.comJanuary 28, 2016 at 7:28 pm #46899
74 is right, the general public does not understand Federal land ownership very much. This is especially so when there are so many Bureaus involved and different types of Federal land ownership. A big chunk of Vermont is National Forest. People here see it as a good thing in that the Feds preserve a huge swath of land at Federal expense. The land my son bought last year is within the authorized area of the Green Mountain National Forest but there are no restrictions on its use being the Feds don’t own that parcel and it’s on a public road. Though National Forests have nothing in common with grazing lands out West, when all local folks know is how this National Forest operates, their opinion of Federal land ownership is positive. Folks our West need to mount an education campaign if they ever hope to sway public opinion. The reality however is that nothing will change out West if State govts aren’t demanding that Federal land be turned over to them.
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