May 6, 2014 at 5:03 am #12501
Horses, real easy reason, they can pull the plow, other implements, more than one speed, the mechanic’in is exactly the same as the buggy hauler.
And you ever try to park a team of oxen?May 6, 2014 at 8:01 am #12508
Oxen will be my choice because work horses will be hard to come by, and the harness etc is quite complex. I have a book on oxen, and if you look you will find quite a lot on the net. Oxen are SLOW.. but this is good if you have no experience.. as you don’t get into trouble so fast.
From experience I can tell you that a milk cow can produce an enormous amount of your food.. and can do this from eating GRASS… which you cannot eat. Milk and cream can become cheese and butter. You can feed chickens on milk ( and dogs and cats).
And your ox is the byproduct of your cow. ( tho you or one of your neighbours will need to keep a bull. If you train up your ox (castrated bull calf) from birth it will be very used to you and being handled by you. It will take a few years before it is big enough to do much. Read the “little House on the Prairie” book “Alanzos Story” he developed a pair of ox.May 6, 2014 at 10:27 am #12524
For us it will be pretty straight forward. Water buffalos have been the tractors in this region for centuries and are still sometimes used today. A lot of horses and similar animals have problems with the muddy soil and climate.
Alea iacta est ("The die has been cast")May 6, 2014 at 10:34 am #12528
I can say I don’t care for his #2 at all. We should return to the original Intent of the Constitution. Change the way the Senate is selected back to the original process, using the House of each State to pick each State’s Senators.
Throw out all the Established Laws based on court decisions and start fresh. Make make Supreme Court decisions review-able by the senate and house. Make Supreme Court Justices Impeachable.
Remove the power of Executive Orders, Remove the war powers act. Remove all Agencies and Departments not enumerated in the Constitution. Return these powers to the states.
Just for starters.
You should run for president.
Periodical complete resets of governments would make a lot of sense. There should also be something like an evaluation period in which processes and priorities are assessed and tested according to proper scientific research methods.
That way the influence of corporations and big money on politics could be reduced and we would end up with a government that works for the people and not those who have most money.
Alea iacta est ("The die has been cast")May 6, 2014 at 12:02 pm #12536
Well, I’m one of the oddballs that has a draft horse and has purchased a few old pieces of farm equipment, fixed them (and had an old hay rake left here on the property that just needed the bearings greased and repacked) – and am teaching/working with him to help me around the place if needed. We are learning together/becoming a team. I live in an area where horses are everywhere and small farms were routinely worked with horses and mules in the past – the local area calls itself ‘horse country’. That said, yes…most of the horses by and large are ridden in various sports or are racehorses. However, there are a lot of work horses being bred and raised – and more donkeys and mules than there used to be. But, no oxen around here that I have seen/used for work although a lot of cattle are raised around here.I’ve ridden horses/been working around them all of my life in different ways. I’m comfortable around them.
I have been raising a small herd of cattle for only 5 years. Am still learning…and expect to have to keep learning. Can’t say I am very comfortable with cattle. They are so different from horses. Much ‘slower’/less easy for me to predict behavior. But then, my experience level is so low.
Yes, looking at what happened when SHTF in other countries, to the rural areas is something it is smart to look at. I have thought about it – but like Malgus, have and am taking steps as are many of my neighboring small farm owners to protect our places and the area in general now. Traffic jams from the closest city/populated areas are going to run most vehicles out of fuel sitting on the highway. Out of shape city people I don’t think are going to make it very far on foot en masse right away. People from cities also tend to be very frightened (I know this is a generalization) of the country. I have many friends, heck my own parents, that are very uncomfortable when they come to visit me because there are no street lights. There are actually no lights/light pollution. The darkness frightens them. the openness frightens them. They can’t sleep unless all the blinds and curtains are drawn where they don’t do the same in ‘town’. Who is going to see them? An owl? A coyote? A bear? They also are bored out of their brains – what do I ‘do’ way out here? They have absolutely no clue.
Enough of my ramble. Time for work. Here’s a good ‘essay‘ from a guy that works both horses and oxen and the differences he sees might add some insight to the discussion.May 6, 2014 at 11:35 pm #12633
Well, I am not expert–but why the hell not try?
My scenario for the US going down under is a financial collapse that starts to pick up steam anywhere from 6 months to 5 years from now. The economy will really crash this time, unemployment will soar, and such. The government in the first stages will try everything it can to control the situation: Mainly welfare, and in highly disturbed areas, martial law.
But our federal government, being an incompetent monstrosity, will either help little, or actually make things worse. As things continue to spiral out of control, and we even hear of some deaths from malnutrition, the federal government will just start losing any sort of legitimacy. State and local governments, along with private groups (including organized crime) will start stepping in. These entities will rather quickly start replacing the federal government in practice. Most likely the federal government might just quit the game entirely, or be relegated to a mostly ceremonial role, maybe something like the Holy Roman Empire in the early 19th century. There would likely be some secession movements.
But the logistics situation will be desperate. While I somehow doubt that there will be a majority die off (50+ % of population), still millions will die for various reasons. Food will be hard to come by, though I doubt impossible. Rural areas may be somewhat better off the most urban areas. As situations break down in many areas, riots, localized civil wars, and insurgencies will pop up. While race relations will likely be piss poor across America, I would imagine that in the mid Atlantic states (Maryland and such places) along with the Southwest would descend into a full blown “race war.”
All things considered, I somehow get a feeling that history likes decades, so maybe 10-15 years for society to reestablish. If America does come together again, I imagine the Northern part of the country will be “America,” while a lot of the Southwest will become part of Mexico, and the “South” will become it’s own nation again, never to rejoin the rest.
Then again, I have no qualifications, so please don’t base any planning onto this. This is just some thoughts I have.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.