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You’re joking right? Applying today’s standards to actions taken by other populations in history.

Oh, give me a break! Joking? Who is it that’s joking here? You and Tolik are getting way out in absurd territory talking about Aztecs, space aliens, and early Romans, and somehow trying to pin that line of logic on me. You changed the focus of the discussion from what I stated in the first paragraph of my previous post, and backed up a few hundred (or even a couple thousand) years to compare the original colonists to the Indians, bringing in the Aztecs, and Tolik adding in the early Romans. Talk about absurd! That wasn’t my point at all, though I at least had the courtesy to address yours.

That Oregon land was Paiute land originally, even declared so by Teddy Roosevelt in 1904, as near as I can remember without bothering to look it up again. It was just taken back away from them within the lifetimes of people still living today, as just another in a string of such reversals of government policy, without regard to any basic respect for the “other side” as human beings. “Might makes right.”

My issue stems from the younger Bundy’s current, 2016 attitude, as stated in what I first wrote. I don’t care a bit about the theoretical situation you posed about space aliens showing up and viewing us as inferior, so they get to just take over (which seemed to be your justification for what was done to the people that occupied this land long before Europeans got here).

Bundy could care less about anybody other than himself. He’s self-serving, whether he’s claiming the land he’s occupying ought to be taken back by “We the People” (which in his case = white folks), or whether it’s riding ATVs across protected lands just because he could get away with it. There’s a complete disregard of any show of respect for people that “ain’t like us,” in that equation. But I’m staying away from the original “who was here first” issue, and only dealing with 20th and 21st century America, starting around the time that the US government just kicked the Paiutes off their legally designated land. From shortly before that time and for many years after, we also had many European immigrants coming to America who simply wanted a chance at a better life, and respected the land they were coming into. They followed the rules, got jobs, integrated into the culture as best they could, but in many cases also chose to keep a close tie with their own roots – and generally that was respected by those already here because it wasn’t meant to set them apart or as a point of conflict. Anybody can march in a St. Patrick’s Day parade, as a simple example (and they do). There was mutual respect for the beliefs, cultures, practices on each “side,” such that for the most part, the concept of “sides” never had to become a significant issue. Sure there were some adjustments, but whether it was the Europeans, or later so-called Hispanic immigrants (Cuba, Mexico, Central America, etc.), for the most part they learned the prevailing language, worked hard, integrated, and sought citizenship. And they were respected for it.

Instead, too many of the Muslim immigrants (here or Europe) are coming in with their practices, and demanding that we modify our society to permit theirs to exist even where it is in open conflict with the prevailing society. And too many Americans, born here, simply don’t want any “outsiders” regardless (unless they already speak great English, and look and act like us). It’s about respect and intentional mutual coexistence, not space aliens or ancient history. I could easily have made the same remark about whether you were joking with your silly space alien and stone age vs. industrial age technology response, but chose to just let it go. Obviously, you didn’t “get” what you read in the first place.